AKC fat dogs

[fbkeays]

Cipher won the large Ambred bitch class this morning and took reserve. My handler told me that the judge said that he really liked her, but she needs a few more pounds!
My handler has been telling me forever that she needs at least 5 more pounds. Cipher is 95 pounds of muscle at 24" tall. There is no way I am ever going to have a 100 pound bitch! Needless to say, that my handler was grinning when he gave me the news.
This same judge gave Fizbin a 5 point win up in Canada last year. Fizbin was 110 pounds of muscle at 25", definitely a lean dog. I figured he would like a fit dog. Both Fizbin and Cipher have been described as "cut".
Tomorrow is another day and another judge.

[frontierrots]

I used to get that all the time from BOTH handler's and judges. I'm sure I'll start getting it again when I ever decide to get Annie out in conformation

Funny, I NEVER hear that from Shiba judges just Rott judges AND my friend with Flat coats heard a few judges recently tell exhibitors their dogs were too fat for a working breed!

[rottnluv]

I will never understand some judge's thinking that Rottweilers should be fat! I just don't get it. These are WORKING dogs and overweight dogs would not be able to work to the level that a lean, fit dog could. Yet, time and again they award heavy dogs in the conformation ring

[fbkeays]

As you can see in my sig line, Cipher is no slouch in the performance area. Her last title was her bh at 26 months of age. We are working on utility and she will be getting her open agility titles this fall. I have started her back in tracking too.

[rottnluv]

No, no Francis.......you've mis-interpreted what I was saying. You said you didn't want to put more weight on Cipher. I was agreeing with you I don't understand why the judge liked her, but figured she should be heavier. Her being heavier doesn't make her a better dog does it? It doesn't change the structure that he was admiring by awarding her her class, right? So, why do judges feel these dogs need to be heavier???

I have a tonne of respect for all the hard work you do with your dogs. I was in no way implying that any of your dogs were fat or couldn't work. No disrespect intended, my thoughts just apparently didn't come out quite right

[targonrotts]

hey, i get that all the time!
when gala finished, she was 95 lbs-too heavy! she now is 84 lbs and working well in flyball/agility. she got faster and better.
the other day i was told i should put back 8-10 lbs on her and special her. i said-no way! she is done, and now she is in shape, and her conformation is still there- just not bigger.
now with her brother dali, i get, put 5 more lbs...then, take 2 off, no wait, get 4 back on....ect. he is 25 inches 107 lbs. needs 1 major to finish. we are starting an excercise program with him, and they will have to like him as he is.

[rottcrazed]

That is my method of thinking too - I prefer a lean dog, my dogs are lean and fit and always will be. If it takes me longer to finish my dogs because I refuse to fatten them up for the ring, so be it. Their health is more important to me than extra pounds for the show ring.

Kristi

[JemarsSerena]

This might be why we can't get past reserve. Serena is a tight 80lbs and as far as I'm concerned she is perfect. If we can't win while being fit then so be it. I'll know soon enough, I'm turning her over to a handler for a while to see if I am the reason she is not winning.

[spidey]

I have specifically asked nearly 10 AKC judges about fat dogs now, and EVERY SINGLE ONE has said they do not like to see fat dogs in the ring. While I'm sure there are some judges and handlers here and there who are unable to tell the difference between fat and substance, I do not think people should be encouraging this ignorance. I think people should show their dogs in fit condition at an appropriate weight, if all judges see are fat dogs, of course they have to put up fat dogs, but that is not a reason to make a dog overweight.

[rottnluv]

I agree Amanda! I, too, refuse to put unneccessary weight on my dog for the sake of a win.

[Skip]

When we showed in AKC years ago, I tried to show only under breeder judges. I think there are a LOT of non-breeder AKC judges that do not understand what a fit rott should look like, no matter what they say. Just my 2 cents.

[fbkeays]

Originally Posted by spidey

I have specifically asked nearly 10 AKC judges about fat dogs now, and EVERY SINGLE ONE has said they do not like to see fat dogs in the ring.

Can you name the judges? I want to look out for them. My handler told me this morning (he didn't get back until midnight so he kept Cipher with him) that the bitch that went winners was fat and had no head. Cipher has a lovely head- not over done and certainly not doggy, but a very strong head none the less.
Cipher is not skinny, but she isn't wearing any extra fat either. She is at a healthy, appropriate weight. I am tired of seeing males that look pregnant win and bitches shouldn't look pregnant either unless they are and then you have to question why they are being shown if they that close to whelp.
We are not doing performance during the summer as it is too hot at the trials. But we are still training. We live on the coast where it is 20-40 degrees cooler then where shows/trials are held. Cipher can handle the conformation because she is in condition, but I am not going to ask for agility or obedience when it is that hot.
I am just frustrated that fat dogs that don't work are getting put up while my lovely working girl is being passed over. Showing isn't cheap. At least in performance events if you don't do well, you can fix what went wrong.

[spidey]

I think there is a lot of confirmation bias going on with the idea that because a dog that won was overweight, that the dog was put up BECAUSE it was overweight (and the fact that your dog may have a better head than the dog who won doesn't mean that the dog who won wasn't better on the day in other respects - the judge judges the dog in front of them on the day, and it's easy to spot faults, we should try to spot merits as well). I can't list all the judges I've asked about this, because I don't have a list of their names, but I can tell you that two were Edd Embry Bivin and Sallyann Comstock (Sallyann judges herding group, not sure if she judges working or not).

[fbkeays]

Originally Posted by spidey

I think there is a lot of confirmation bias going on with the idea that because a dog that won was overweight, that the dog was put up BECAUSE it was overweight (and the fact that your dog may have a better head than the dog who won doesn't mean that the dog who won wasn't better on the day in other respects - the judge judges the dog in front of them on the day, and it's easy to spot faults, we should try to spot merits as well). I can't list all the judges I've asked about this, because I don't have a list of their names, but I can tell you that two were Edd Embry Bivin and Sallyann Comstock (Sallyann judges herding group, not sure if she judges working or not).

I realize that, I do. I do wish that being out of condition and over weight be considered a fault in the standard. The rottweiler is supposed to be a working dog. A working dog is in condition and not fat. I am not surprised about Mr. Bivin. He and his wife put my Fizbin up for back to back majors. Apparently both were surpised that they both liked the same dog.

[poohbearsmom]

It's not just AKC. I was at a sieger show last month, and they were FAT there, too.

From puppies to Champion and Working Class. FAT FAT FAT.

My pups looked like holocaust survivors compared to their peers. LOL

We've discussed this many times on the forums.... it seems that fat is a good substitute for substance.