Judge dissed veteran dog and USRC

[fbkeays]

Originally Posted by Zephir

If he didn't know, he didn't know. IF the owner of the spayed veteran female saw what happened with Duncan, then shame on the owner for showing her.

Someone did tell him. His reply was, "Is the judge going to ask?". I guess the judge didn't ask and he was in the ring with his bitch.
Begs the question though, if it is so important to the judge to not judge altered animals and he was made aware that it was possible, do you think that he would be asking?

[lldewe]

I have been reading all these posts, some right on and some ridiculous.

As the Show Chairman at that show AND the person who wrote the "email" apology to Francis I am flabbergasted! Anton did do some incredible things while he was in our company this past weekend. Wine Country Rottweiler Club will certainly keep these things in mind when we decide to hold another show. But for this conversation to continue even days later is totally amazing.

And yes, there actually were 2 spayed bitches in the ring. But which of you were there rolling them over to check their scar??? Huhm???

I'm once again sorry Francis that this happened but Anton was not in anyone's control with his judging. You saw how he was even the night before at dinner. I say we all move forward and get beyond this now.

Lorie

[MontanaRott]

Francis, I am very sorry to read that what should have been a fun day for you and a rewarding experience for Duncan, was so disappointing and upsetting. Hopefully this kind of thing will not happen to someone else in the future. Showing in any venue is stressful enough with out this kind of foul up.

[lblax]

american clubs that are show or working clubs that are members of the fci when they use a fci judge they must abide by fci rules it is not there fault that american clubs choose to change rules or bend rules to make more classes or make it better for people to compete , there is nothing wrong with that just use the american club judges fci judges are bound by this and the judge was correct

5 General duties of a Show Judge

At shows in countries whose NCO is a member of the FCI, Show Judges must always follow the valid FCI standards of the breeds they are judging, as long as these are not in conflict with national law. They may not interpret any standard in such a manner to be in conflict with the functional health of a dog.

When judging, any Show Judge has to obey strictly these Judges Regulations as well as the FCI Show Regulations and all other rules of FCI.

if your club wants to look flashy and get a well known german judge ya get what ya get.....

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by lblax

american clubs that are show or working clubs that are members of the fci when they use a fci judge they must abide by fci rules it is not there fault that american clubs choose to change rules or bend rules to make more classes or make it better for people to compete , there is nothing wrong with that just use the american club judges fci judges are bound by this and the judge was correct

if your club wants to look flashy and get a well known german judge ya get what ya get.....

I think this is terribly confusing - if there is a Judge invited to judge an event with certain rules - don't they abide by the rules of the group that invited them?

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Bucky's Mom

I think this is terribly confusing - if there is a Judge invited to judge an event with certain rules - don't they abide by the rules of the group that invited them?

no they have to abide by the fci rules which american clubs apply to fci and get membership in all actuallity they should follow the fci rules but all of them have there differances , but there is no excuse for a club not to know that and should pass it on to the entries... ive been to plenty of schutzhund usa and or dvg trial where the club brings in a sv judge from germany and let me tell you more times than not most people including us spectators at the time go away unhappy. you have 10 rules of rottstock does this mean all the other rotstocks can make there own rules??? and if roscoe would go to michigan rottstock(as example) should he let all the dogs uncrate d in a big free for all because that was there rule????? big generilization i know but same thing i feel sorry for francis because it should have been made aware of this by someone so they could have avoided entering...

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by lblax

but there is no excuse for a club not to know that and should pass it on to the entries... .............and let me tell you more times than not most people including us spectators at the time go away unhappy. you have 10 rules of rottstock does this mean all the other rotstocks can make there own rules??? and if roscoe would go to michigan rottstock(as example) should he let all the dogs uncrate d in a big free for all because that was there rule????? big generilization i know but same thing i feel sorry for francis because it should have been made aware of this by someone so they could have avoided entering...

Thank you for being kind enough to relate this to something I understand
The 10 rules of Rottstock apply to ALL Rottstocks.

And (even with my limited awareness) think the entrants should be made aware.

Thanks Larry ;)

[lblax]

[quote=Bucky's Mom]And (even with my limited awareness) think the entrants should be made aware.

QUOTE] mee too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BostonRott]

The only problem is, USRC is NOT an FCI club. None of the "independant" clubs are. The only organization in the US which has ANY FCI recognition is the AKC. And FCI only gives them guest status b/c they don't use FCI breed standards. And since FCI will only recognize one registry per country per breed, any breed that has AKC studbooks can not have a separate club (like ARV/USRC/USA) that has "FCI recognition."

[lblax]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

The only problem is, USRC is NOT an FCI club. None of the "independant" clubs are. The only organization in the US which has ANY FCI recognition is the AKC. And FCI only gives them guest status b/c they don't use FCI breed standards. And since FCI will only recognize one registry per country per breed, any breed that has AKC studbooks can not have a separate club (like ARV/USRC/USA) that has "FCI recognition."

your correct,im basing this due to the fact that the awdf is currently on application to the fci and if accepted will or should include all the clubs that are associated with it.. but regardless of any circumstances the judge is bound by his organizations rules is this not correct?? i feel the whole thing was a unfortunate situation that should have been avoided

[BostonRott]

That I can't say......I don't do that much delving into rules. It would seem to me that a contract should exist that hammers all of this out (which organizations rules will be followed, how discrepancies will be handled, etc). However, it is my understanding that getting judges to sign contracts is all but impossible.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

That I can't say......I don't do that much delving into rules. It would seem to me that a contract should exist that hammers all of this out (which organizations rules will be followed, how discrepancies will be handled, etc). However, it is my understanding that getting judges to sign contracts is all but impossible.

lol especially judges from the overseas lol the ruling i posted came from the fci's rules off there site i personally dont see the hooplah about bringing these judges in its always a good brag when someone can say mr. xxxx loved my dog but more than not it just goes the other way.(anyway in working trial)

[damp]

Originally Posted by lblax

lol especially judges from the overseas lol the ruling i posted came from the fci's rules off there site i personally dont see the hooplah about bringing these judges in its always a good brag when someone can say mr. xxxx loved my dog but more than not it just goes the other way.(anyway in working trial)

JUST a point of view from overseas:

Conformation titles are ONE part of what makes a dog suitable for breeding and that’s why we show our dogs. If the dog can’t reproduce, why waste our money on a show.

The rule saying, that the judges must check testicles is to discover cryptorcism etc. (don’t know the English words) Such dogs can make much harm to the breed (opposite to spayed bitches )

I am not into show…but AS FAR as I understand, the judge HAS to judge by the rules to the organisation (which overseas mostly would be FCI) which he/she belongs to and certificated him/her as judge or he/she would not be judge when the “jungle tromps” reach Europe: He judged (and worse placed) a dog without two correct placed testicles.

I would not blame a judge for abiding to the rules (to keep his reliability and self-respect) but to the CLUB who invited a foreigner judge and NOT knowing what rules the judge HAS to follow and to pass this on to the entrants.



Ordnung muss sein!!!

[MissouriRots]

I don't think the judge should be blamed in this instance. If there is blame, it should be on the folks responsible for hiring this judge in the first place. If he can't or won't judge by the club's rules, another judge should be found.
Shawn

[MonteRiehl]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

The only problem is, USRC is NOT an FCI club. None of the "independant" clubs are. The only organization in the US which has ANY FCI recognition is the AKC. And FCI only gives them guest status b/c they don't use FCI breed standards. And since FCI will only recognize one registry per country per breed, any breed that has AKC studbooks can not have a separate club (like ARV/USRC/USA) that has "FCI recognition."

OK, here's a twist for you.
Very first paragraph, on the very first page of the www.USRConline.com website very clearly states that they follow the ADRK and FCI standards.
I would assume that all USRC sponsored shows use the ADRK/FCI standard and not the AKC standard and rules.

To me that would mean they have moved away from the AKC/CKC breed standard, and are now using the ADRK/FCI standard adopted in 2000.
The Eliminating faults of the ADRK/FCI standard has a special notation of: Male animals must have two apparently normal testicles fully decended into the scrotum.
It does not state anything about spayed females. It's not entirely fair in that regard.

While I feel really bad for Francis and Duncan, I think the show organizers, the USRC, and the judge have followed their guidelines as best as they can.