Provisional Judges

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

What do you guys think of provisional judges? Just wondering, I've been told not to show under them, but I try not to enter shows based on who's judging. I'm confident that I have a nice puppy and I know that sometimes you win and sometimes you loose no matter how nice your dog is. I've tried to adopt the policy, "It's one judge on one day".

[Judi W]

Provisional no more or less has much to say about what is going to happen. Some are quite decent as they don't yet "owe" anyone or anything. Others might not have been to respectable with their primary breed and should not be expected to become smart with the attitional breeds. What I do not like to see is someone who is not comfortable or competent in running their ring. Now that irritates me.

[flyballmom]

Can't speak for conformation...or any other venue yet...but in flyball, provisional judges are viewed as a good thing. Someone who may take a bit longer to make a call, but is learning the ropes...who may someday be an asset, and who should be helped and educated.

[Brooke&Ryan]

Can you please explain what a provisional judge is?


Brooke

[BostonRott]

In agility, provisional judges are also a good thing and people are supportive of them.

[Rotty4Me]

Well, one thing about provisional judges is, you never know what they are gonna do! A provisional judge gave Tux one of his BOB's over a special when he was 10 months old. I've also seen provisional judges put up dogs/puppies that were far from the standard. They are learning & some make real bold moves while others are more "routine." Sometimes they will have a more seasoned judge "assisting" them in the ring. I would enter, especially if you or your dog need ring experience, but keep in mind they are also new at judging. The only time I personally hesitate to enter under a provisonal judge is when they are judging majors in rottweilers. Majors are far & few between in the northeast & to go through all the expense, time & effort to get there, I want a judge who's a little more seasoned. My opinon.

Maureen

[LynnS]

Originally Posted by Rotty4Me

Well, one thing about provisional judges is, you never know what they are gonna do! A provisional judge gave Tux one of his BOB's over a special when he was 10 months old. I've also seen provisional judges put up dogs/puppies that were far from the standard. They are learning & some make real bold moves while others are more "routine." Sometimes they will have a more seasoned judge "assisting" them in the ring. I would enter, especially if you or your dog need ring experience, but keep in mind they are also new at judging. The only time I personally hesitate to enter under a provisonal judge is when they are judging majors in rottweilers. Majors are far & few between in the northeast & to go through all the expense, time & effort to get there, I want a judge who's a little more seasoned. My opinon.

Maureen

We have had a lot of provisional judges in shows that were majors this year. It has been interesting to say the least!

[Judi W]

They are not necessarily new to judging. It means that they are not yet licensed for that breed. Some have been judging for many years and have studied the breed, taken the breed tests and are now in provisional status for that breed. They could easily have two or more groups and be starting on another.

[Rotty4Me]

Originally Posted by Judi W

They are not necessarily new to judging. It means that they are not yet licensed for that breed. Some have been judging for many years and have studied the breed, taken the breed tests and are now in provisional status for that breed. They could easily have two or more groups and be starting on another.

Yes, I apologize if I was unclear in what I personally said. The judge is new to the breed it is provisonally judging. As Judy said, they could have been judging as a whole for some time prior. But they are still "new" to that particular breed they are judging & my experience with them has been they were fairly new to judging in general. But Judy is right, it is incorrect to assume they are not already seasoned judges in another breed.

Maureen

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

Maureen you definately said it best. We just had a similar experience that left some of us with a jaws on the floor. I was told you can expect anything from a provisional judge and yet we were all still very surprised.

[hcelsa]

Originally Posted by Diane Heller-Vaccaro

We just had a similar experience that left some of us with a jaws on the floor. I was told you can expect anything from a provisional judge and yet we were all still very surprised.

Who was the provisional judge and what did he/she do that was so wild? It is benificial to others that show in conformation to know when a judge might not be one worth the entry fee.

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

It wasn't our breed I was just posting this for a GSD person and even though I didn't have a dog in the ring I did have GSDs for the last few years it was last dog anyone thought had a shot. I guess you never know. I'll have to ask my friend what regular breeds he usually judges. Some of the GSD people were really upset and then someone checked and said he was a provisional judge and that would explain why he'd put up a dog of less quality.

[AdonisRotts]

Provisional judges are definitely interesting, and I personally think it greatly depends on what venue they came from whether it be once professional handler, breeder-owner-handler, or breeder (not specifically the breed they are judging) who used professional handlers. I have seen provisional judges that would only put up a well known handler in a particular breed (to them it is the safe choice, to ensure assignments later), but I have also seen those who take a great look at the owner handler and would rather put up a owner handled dog that a pro. I also think that it greatly varies as to what breed they originally came from, it can help you judge as to what breed traits they place higher priority on. A very well known rottie handler and I were talking several weeks ago about a judge, he was talking about how she was a horrible judge but he had always done well under her. He brought up the fact that he did not feel that she bred outstanding quality dogs (her breed was not rottweilers) and that only breeders that really tried to breed to the standard and produced very correct/sound dogs in their own breed would make good judges in other breeds. He said that those judges took time and examined the breed standard, and try to find equally good examples in other breeds. When I thought about what he said, I found that he was fairly correct in his assumptions (at least in my opinion). But I am learning to live by what someone said earlier, any judge on any given day could put you up and turn around and do the exact opposite later, you just have to take your chances. I have two very good examples, a very popular rottweiler judge gave Naya WB/BW and OS over ranked specials her 2nd weekend out for a 4 point major owner handled, a few weeks later the same judge was judging another major entry with approximately the same bitches but this time our handler was showing her because my husband had Army stuff to do, she gave her 2nd in Am bred (my handler was furious! and I laughed). On that same weekend a breeder/judge gave Naya 2nd with our handler this was on a Wed, we picked Naya up on Fri to go to another show. When we got there, there had been a judges change (it was that breeder/judge again, and we thought it was a waste of our time), she gave Naya WB/BW and then BOB. When we questioned her about it, she laughed and said she showed better for my husband and he had done a better job (go figure). Like I said every dog has their day!
Jessica Peace-Urgelles

[Judi W]

"I have seen provisional judges that would only put up a well known handler in a particular breed (to them it is the safe choice, to ensure assignments later), but I have also seen those who take a great look at the owner handler and would rather put up a owner handled dog that a pro."

I'm sorry, but one is just as bad as the other. Although they are not the majority, I've seen judges of all stripes who looked at the dogs.

[TrinityRun]

IMO, the win is only as good as the judge awarding it. So I very much pay attention to who is judging before putting an entry in. Winning and losing has nothing to do with it - it has to do with the respect I have for their opinion.