Raising the conformation dog

[MontanaRott]

Originally Posted by lblax

geesh and here i was under the impression that you had a dang fine dog that you were extreamly happy with and do you still wonder why we keep saying just showing does not prove the dog and how about a bunch of dogs raised like he wants, bred to each other for generations just enjoy your dog

Thanks Larry. I thought showing was supposed to be fun! When someone thinks like this how can it be?

[Ann Felske-Jackman]

[quote=Judi W]
Your dog is only in the conformation ring for minutes and deserves the rest of his life which you are giving him. Don't ever apologize for that.

And not only does your dog deserve to have a wonderful life, but so do you. For me, that wonderful life includes having a few dogs lying at my feet as I type this, one to warm my bed at night, one to dance around the living room with just because I feel like it, perhaps another to enjoy a ride into town on a nice Spring day...

Showing and trialing is great and I'm about as competitive as they come, but the reason that I got a dog (and another and another ) is because I enjoy sharing my life with them. If you feel the same, than enjoy your dog and don't feel guilty for it (I'm sure he doesn't!).

Ann

[MontanaRott]

[quote=Ann Felske-Jackman]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Your dog is only in the conformation ring for minutes and deserves the rest of his life which you are giving him. Don't ever apologize for that.

And not only does your dog deserve to have a wonderful life, but so do you. For me, that wonderful life includes having a few dogs lying at my feet as I type this, one to warm my bed at night, one to dance around the living room with just because I feel like it, perhaps another to enjoy a ride into town on a nice Spring day...

Showing and trialing is great and I'm about as competitive as they come, but the reason that I got a dog (and another and another ) is because I enjoy sharing my life with them. If you feel the same, than enjoy your dog and don't feel guilty for it (I'm sure he doesn't!).

Ann

Thank you Ann, coming from a home where a dog was owner handled to his CH. THAT means a lot!

[MARYDVM]

Has the person offering all this 'expert" advice actually accomplished anything in conformation? 20 minutes of exercise every other day will get you absolutely nowhere in a German style show. Most pro AKC handlers condition there dogs with exercise too. Has this guy personally had any major accomplishments, or is he a legend in his own mind?

[frontierrots]

Originally Posted by MontanaRott

But after this enlightening conversation, I am just really wondering, how are you raising your show dogs?

First and foremost my dogs are allowed to be dogs

They spend time every day mingling with the dogs in their group, learning dog language and the subtlties of all that is involved with speaking and being dog

They roll in the dirt, they leap and jump and wrestle

They go hiking and to work, they learn obedience, manners and howto read human and ive in the human world

My dogs are happy, healthy well adjusted dogs

The person you spoke to obviously knows nothing about dogs and their mental well being. A dog raised in the fashion they describe will not be a well rounded and well adjusted dog, though it may well be desparate for attention so much that it does indeed perform as well as it can with it's limited language skills, limited social skills, total lack of physical developement and limited training

if that's how to have a winning show dog I don't want one

Talk to Pam Marshall about how Cahill ( BISS CH Gamegards U.S. Marshall) is raised and cared for. He's a pretty top winning boy and he is her beloved pet and best friend to boot

[stevenc]

Originally Posted by MontanaRott

So how are you who are showing raising your dogs? The reason I am asking is because there is a person who has an interest in Guerin and this individual was very disappointed with the critique Guerin got at the Nationals. So this person contacted us with an offer to "help" get him ready for his next outing. Well Phil talked to this individual last night and was told everything we are doing top to bottom, front to back, inside and out, is WRONG. And that if we continue to feed, exercise, train and spend time with him the way we are now, we had better be prepared for last place finishes and disappointment. We need to feed JUST kibble, and supplement with Peak Performance II, walk him 20 minutes a day every-other day, and kennel him outside and LIMIT time we spend with him and stop training for obedience and tracking. We have spoiled this dog by having him indoors and spending so much time with him and we need to make a decision now, do we want a show dog or a pet. We cannot have both. And it is an impossibility for Phil to owner handle him with ANY success in AKC or Sieger.
Well first of all showing is a HOBBY for us, not life or death and not a business. We do it to spend time with the dog and to have fun. If he never gets a working title or a point in an AKC show or a V rating in the sieger ring, SO WHAT!? HE IS OUR PET first and foremost. We will love him and enjoy sharing our lives with him no matter what. And this is not to say, we do not prepare for each endeavor, we do. But, we are novices, and we are trying to learn as we go too! We were also told, we had no business entering him in the Nationals, he was not ready and should have never been shown.
But after this enlightening conversation, I am just really wondering, how are you raising your show dogs?

Hi Shirley! Well Samatha and I have been going to Sieger shows for 6 years now and I saw what the judge said about Guerin and thought it was a good critique. The AKC ring is different. They like a different TYPE rottweilers and I agree with this man that you probably would need a PRO handling your dog since everything is political in that venue. I would say if you guys are just out to have fun then do it yourselves.Enjoy your dog because one thing I learned is some people say alot and have never been in a RING with their dog. They have no IDEA what it is like to show and handle a dog and then they comment on something they know nothing about. They know who they are! As far as not feeding raw and adding supplements, it sounds like someone who agrees with steriod use. One thing I believe and you have heard me say this before the dogs muscle bulk is genetic and either he has it or not. Fausto has good muscle but not like disel. I could run him everyday, give him supplements, bike him, and still he will not look like disel. He is more athletic looking. This is why his movement in the ring is to die for. You and Phil keep working with your boy and have fun at whatever venue you decide on and USteve and ASamantha will be rooting for him everytime. I know he will NEVER let you down! Hopefully we will see you guys at a SIEGER show real soon! Go GUERIN!

[Sharon Marples]

WOW.......what a COLD person! I cannot imagine never letting the dog be a dog, sharing his personality, having the warmth of his affection as he lays at your feet looking up at you (while in the house!).

I too am interested in hearing about the type of dogs this person has. Are they social, can he take them out in public? Or are they just kennel dogs that are so starved for attention that they will do backflips for him when he finally does take them out of the kennel so that they can get more attention from him.

There are some dogs that will not show well for their owners because they elevate themselves to the owners positon. I do not think that Guerin is one of these dogs. Enjoy him, show him, get him in the obedience ring and have fun with him!

I feel sorry for the person who has told you all of this, he certainly can never enjoy his dogs for what they can give him with the way he has told you to raise them.

[ACERSMOM]

Well my pet/ show dog just went BOB with a Group 3 placement and came home to a pizza party and slept at the bottom of my bed that night. I guess I do not fit this persons profile either.

[Rotty4Me]

Originally Posted by stevenc

The AKC ring is different. They like a different TYPE rottweilers and I agree with this man that you probably would need a PRO handling your dog since everything is political in that venue. I would say if you guys are just out to have fun then do it yourselves.

Hey Steve! Just curious if you are refering to the "everything being political in that venue" meaning AKC? Because I have seen politics in BOTH venues. I've seen judges put dogs up in both venues that I never thought should have been & vise versa. As an owner handler I am having a wonderful time showing my young male in AKC & CKC shows. We recently took a Group 2 in Canada & have taken BOB's over specials here in the U.S. too. And we have been fortunate enough to have been put up over pro handlers in both countries. I DO agree politics do play their part, but in all venues. Yes, we have also been dumped to pro handlers as well. And some people are not comfortable enough or have the desirable "finess" for conformation handling & do better hiring a handler. But wait till you give AKC a try with Disel.....you may find you like it! And I have seen similar types in both venues too. There are several AKC Ch/Sieger titled dogs. Just my 2 cents on the topic....

Maureen

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by MontanaRott

So how are you who are showing raising your dogs? The reason I am asking is because there is a person who has an interest in Guerin and this individual was very disappointed with the critique Guerin got at the Nationals. So this person contacted us with an offer to "help" get him ready for his next outing. Well Phil talked to this individual last night and was told everything we are doing top to bottom, front to back, inside and out, is WRONG. And that if we continue to feed, exercise, train and spend time with him the way we are now, we had better be prepared for last place finishes and disappointment. We need to feed JUST kibble, and supplement with Peak Performance II, walk him 20 minutes a day every-other day, and kennel him outside and LIMIT time we spend with him and stop training for obedience and tracking. We have spoiled this dog by having him indoors and spending so much time with him and we need to make a decision now, do we want a show dog or a pet. We cannot have both. And it is an impossibility for Phil to owner handle him with ANY success in AKC or Sieger.
Well first of all showing is a HOBBY for us, not life or death and not a business. We do it to spend time with the dog and to have fun. If he never gets a working title or a point in an AKC show or a V rating in the sieger ring, SO WHAT!? HE IS OUR PET first and foremost. We will love him and enjoy sharing our lives with him no matter what. And this is not to say, we do not prepare for each endeavor, we do. But, we are novices, and we are trying to learn as we go too! We were also told, we had no business entering him in the Nationals, he was not ready and should have never been shown.
But after this enlightening conversation, I am just really wondering, how are you raising your show dogs?

Wow.

If you can teach a dog to sit, you can teach him to stand. If your dog is smart enough to learn obedience, he's smart enough to stand for a judge and prance around a ring 4 times. Sigh.

I cannot imagine, being so competitive that I dissallow myself the pleasure of enjoying my dogs.

Currently, I own 3 companion dogs.. one of which has shown VERY successfully, and obtained multiple V1 ratings, Local, Regional and National Youth Sieger awards, an AKC Championship, has passed TDI evaluation, got solid scores on his TT , and is working towards a little SchH fun.

I don't consider the advice of this person who has an "interest" in your dog to be very solid, or even coincide with YOUR priorities in the least.

At least you know where this person stands on this now...LOL.

Go walk your dog now.

[samanthac]

Unfortunately the only interest this person shows is making sure that the dog only shows places and under judges that will benefit his kennel name. Where is the fun and the challenge in going to shows and showing under judges who favor your breeder? I know that I don't want any dog titles, front or back, that are gifts or favors. I want to earn everything fair and square.

[SABELLESMOM]

Well how cold, boring, unfulfilling, and unrewarding Conformation Showing would be! I'd have chosen not to do it, if that were really he case.

I need my girl(s) and my non show boy WITH me IN my home. I want them sitting ON my feet, prancing out to the kitchen, and doing zoomies in the yard. What would be the sense to having a dog at all if you couldn't ENJOY them and what they add to your life. How sad...

[TrishB]

Okay - I'm posting about a friend's dog (Ann, I hope you don't mind! <G>) but here is a PERFECT example of what you were told and how it's complete BS!! LOL

Multi V-1, Multi BISS Am/Can CH Yngo van het Dornedal Can CDX, Am CD, Am/Can TD, SchHII, BST, BH, TT, CGC

Mike takes this dog tracking CONSTANTLY. He also trains him in Schutzhund. He also breeds him. He also shows him! And all with LOTS OF SUCCESS!! Yngo was out working on his SchHIII and a few weeks later went 2003 MRC Specialty Winners Dog and received an Award of Merit there as well. Yngo was also inducted into the MRC Hall of Fame that same year.

So I'll tell you what - ignore the person who contacted you. They may be right in that you may need to make some changes in order to get better critiques - but ask someone that you respect and value their opinion. Ask them where he's weak and where his strengths are. Your breeder, someone in your club, another breeder - but someone you like!

I've often found that people who approach others with advice, without being asked, are just looking to cash in some how (either by having you pay them or by degrading your dog to make their dog look better, etc.).

People who you respect and admire are the ones that you have to ask for their opinion.

[stevenc]

Originally Posted by Rotty4Me

Hey Steve! Just curious if you are refering to the "everything being political in that venue" meaning AKC? Because I have seen politics in BOTH venues. I've seen judges put dogs up in both venues that I never thought should have been & vise versa. As an owner handler I am having a wonderful time showing my young male in AKC & CKC shows. We recently took a Group 2 in Canada & have taken BOB's over specials here in the U.S. too. And we have been fortunate enough to have been put up over pro handlers in both countries. I DO agree politics do play their part, but in all venues. Yes, we have also been dumped to pro handlers as well. And some people are not comfortable enough or have the desirable "finess" for conformation handling & do better hiring a handler. But wait till you give AKC a try with Disel.....you may find you like it! And I have seen similar types in both venues too. There are several AKC Ch/Sieger titled dogs. Just my 2 cents on the topic....

Maureen

I apologize Maureen. I know I have an edge about the AKC but I just cannot understand how they can judge and not tell you why they have picked one dog over another. At least the adrk judges tell you in their critiques. Yes everything venue has POLITICS but I am more comfortable in the Sieger shows because I can handle the dog and more informal. Also, the judges don't know me and I don't know them which gives me more confidence on their decisions. Take care and good luck with your dogs!

[work-n-show]

Shirley,

What a load of crap.

I think you and Phil have done just fine with Guerin. If you want to make sure the dog does well in the ring, then make sure to keep in in good shape and well balanced.

As far as judges critiques go, it is just one opinion on one day. If you do see things show up on critiques that you can do something about, then do it.

I'm straining my mind trying to figure out who would have called you and I think I have a pretty good idea. Like many others have already said, keep in mind that they would like to make money off you and they will tell you things to help them reach their goal. You're doing just fine. See you next time!