Obedience Vs. Conformation

[TrishB]

Hey all,

For those of you who do both Obedience and Conformation showing - how do you get your dogs to go flat and forward for Conformation and up and watching you for Obedience?

Parker LOVES his handler. I've been working very hard with him to watch me when we're working together. But he also watches the handler!

Watching him in conformation makes him crane his head around to watch him and prance in the front end. Although it's very cute to see him working so hard for him - it isn't what the judge is looking for.

How do you get them to differentiate between watching for obedience and going forward for conformation? I'd hate to correct the 'watching' when it's exactly what I want him to do for obedience! :)

[Luvs]

I am still kinda new at doing both too, but one thing I have found that kinda helped Akasha and Keil is using different collars for obedience and conformation. Right now we are just using a flat buckle collar for obedience and the thin choke chain for conformation. I was using a prong for obedience but we switched back to the flat buckle collar when we started with our new trainer several months ago. I can use the flat buckle collar in the obedience ring. I also have a choke collar that is a little thicker that I can use if I need to.

Akasha and Keil are starting to get better about not sitting for our handler anymore. They used to automatically sit and always watched her. I think the fact that she does strictly conformation with them and I do strictly obedience helps them differentiate (sp?) between the two. I don't know what I will do if I start showing conformation myself. Hopefully someone who does both will give you some better advice than I can. I would love to know how they do it also. ;)

[Judi W]

It is the handler's body language more than equipment or anything else. I have always shown both places and usually on the same days. The only thing I do a bit differently is that I do not ever have the dog do a sit in front for bait. That is the one position that can be the same so I want a stack and bait when the dog is facing me. Other than that the body language is totally different. I bike my dogs a lot so they know how to move out in a straight line on a lose lead. If you never give your dog a chance to do so, they not only don't know how, it can give them bad habits as far as keeping the front sound is concerned. I don't do the prancy/wrapped heeling either. I think that is damaging to the front.

[spidey]

Personally, I don't like focus heeling (the term I've heard for that wrapped-around, staring up at you heeling) for obedience. I know it looks impressive and lots of people do it, but it's not required and I think it looks awkward and uncomfortable for the dog - they can watch you just fine with their peripheral vision, I don't think they need to be staring up at you the whole time, and heeling is difficult and unrewarding enough already, in my opinion, without making it physically uncomfortable as well. So my answer is, just don't insist on focus heeling and you shouldn't have a problem :D. If you must do focus heeling, since you give a command for heel, it's likely just a matter of practice (you could even start using a separate command for conformation - I use "showtime", since I've been clicker training an extended trot for conformation and that's the cue I use for it).

[SABELLESMOM]

[quote=TrishB
How do you get them to differentiate between watching for obedience and going forward for conformation? I'd hate to correct the 'watching' when it's exactly what I want him to do for obedience! :)[/QUOTE]

I don't like the look of the dogs head turned to me for either, period. Dogs do have enough peripheral vision to see you and know what you expect without craning their necks. I know a lot of people work hard to get it but to me it just looks awkward.

Jazmine, never craned her neck in obedience. Since she was never pushed into craning the neck in the first place there was nothing to undo. She had a crooked ear and was never shown in conformation. I like the look of a dog that isn't craning and straining, and there is less tripping up between dog and handler.

Sable, was always a conformation dog first. She also was never taught to "look at me". She has been taught obedience tho only "competed" at kennel club parties for fun. I was surprised at how well she actually does. Her personality is less rigid than Jazzy was. In a sense, they each do what they are best at. Sable likes to strut. It also happens to suit their individual personaliteis, funny...isn't it?

[Judi W]

You need to "teach" the dog to move out and stop in a stack with just as much attention to the teaching as you do teaching the obedience. Means you need to be taught yourself as to body english, how to hold the lead, how to cant your body

[fbkeays]

I was going to give you the smart ass answer that I use a handler. But it really is more then that. My handler is fairly local to me (within 30 miles). When he first took Fizbin on, he would come to the training club on Tuesday nights. The club offered obedience and conformation handling classes. So I will finish with obedience and immediately hand him off to Anthony for conformation. He would also take him for the day (Anthony works nights) while I was at work and train him. Anthony has probably spent more then 100 hours on training him.
Fizbin is a completely different dog with Anthony then he is with me. Fizbin naturally does the heads up heeling focus heeling. I know I didn't train it because my other dogs don't do it and I don't think I did anything especially different with him. Anthony does use completely different body language then I do. Anthony makes sure he doesn't do any signals or commands that I use for obedience, herding, tracking or carting (except when Anthony is using Fizbin to haul in the setup). I gave him a whole list of commands and signals and he avoids them. I think it is a whole relationship thing. Fizbin knows what to do to please Anthony and he knows what to do to please me.

[frontierrots]

we simply use different commands that the dogs are very fluent in the behaviors that those commands name

heel- is for just that , heeling with attention

let's go- is for loose leash walking with minimal attention

Of course we use different collars and leads, but the dog should be fluent in the behavior and command regardless of clothing or there is room for error :)

[LynnS]

Hi Trish

The only time Bella does focused heeling is when I ask for a heel. I do practice a lot of trotting with Bella so she knows what "lets go" means. To date she has not tried to heel in the conformation ring. The only small issue we have had is her sitting after the out and back. This was quickly fixed though...

[TrishB]

We don't have problems with the stack or sitting. In conformation, he stands like a champ and never attempts to sit. In obedience, he'll sit very nicely.

It's ONLY the watching - which shifts his movement because he's looking up rather than forward in the ring.

I'll work on some other commands, maybe "forward" for moving forward without watching.

[LynnS]

Amanada hit on an interesting point and Judi has mentioned something similar in other threads. An extended trot is something you can teach just like any other behavior. My husband and I work on this together (one gaits the dog and one marks the correct behavior).

Parker will figure it out quick enough...