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Breeding Just about anything related to breeding should go here. Please remember, litter announcements are fine, but puppies/dogs for sale, through posts or links, are strictly prohibited. The discussion of breeders is not permited.

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  #1  
Old 01-19-2009, 12:41 PM
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Red face Can too many ties breed out puppies?

I heard that you can tie too many times and shoot too much sperm in and they would end up crossing eachother out while fighting to get to the eggs. Does this make sense? It did at first to me, but now that I've read some things, I'm not so sure. I've heard that if you don't know when ovulation is occuring exactly, then breed every other day starting on day 10,11, or 12 until they won't do it any longer. Will this cause them to eliminate or change the number of pups? I also just read that it takes 7 days for the males sperm to develop again???? and another said only 24 ot 36 hours. Big difference..... LOL...... I would love to have a straight and accurate answer to this.... Thanks for any help.......
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:01 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

I don't know the answer to your question, but if you have read here much at all before posting, you should be able to predict what people here will say. So, here goes, from me.

If you are actively thinking about breeding your dog(s), and you have to ask this question on an Internet forum, I would suggest that you have not done enough homework on this breed to be breeding any dog. What makes your dogs worth breeding? What titles (conformation or working) do they have? Have you done OFA certifications on hips and elbows? Do you have health clearances for hearts and eyes?

Rottweilers are prone to serious health defects that are not visible to the eye. Read the stickies here in the breeding forum about breeding "nice" dogs. The people on this site care about the betterment of this BREED. We are not in favor of breeding every "nice" dog that has the equipment to allow it to reproduce. Shelters and pounds and rescues are brim full with the results of indiscriminate "back yard" breedings and the descendants from the pups produced from those dogs. Stay here and learn, but don't even think about breeding dog(s) until you have done all your homework and have dogs that have proven themselves worthy of breeding.
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:50 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Von Nia View Post
I heard that you can tie too many times and shoot too much sperm in and they would end up crossing eachother out while fighting to get to the eggs. Does this make sense? It did at first to me, but now that I've read some things, I'm not so sure. I've heard that if you don't know when ovulation is occuring exactly, then breed every other day starting on day 10,11, or 12 until they won't do it any longer. Will this cause them to eliminate or change the number of pups? I also just read that it takes 7 days for the males sperm to develop again???? and another said only 24 ot 36 hours. Big difference..... LOL...... I would love to have a straight and accurate answer to this.... Thanks for any help.......
I would ask for suggestions on good books to read. But to generally answer your questions.
1. If you are using the same dog and he is breeding every day or several times a day, his sperm volume/count will decrease over a short amount of time. I think it is about 6 weeks to make completely new sperm, but better check a good book as it has been a while since I have researched this.
2. If you don't do progesteron testing, you don't know when and trying to breed on day x,y and z is a crap shoot. Doing so mostly result in an injured male and female. As an example, my bitch isn't ready to be bred until day 18 of her cycle. So trying to breed her on day 10-12 would not result in pregnancy and instead result in a pissed off bitch and a male who if he was trying to breed her, would be less willing to do so the next time.
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2009, 04:46 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

Thanks for your ideas, as I have read many others already and new someone would give it to me. I do appreciate your dedication to stopping BYB's from irresponsibly breeding for the wrong reasons. My dogs are Champion rottweilers and my family has had rottweilers for over 30 years. Our lines come directly from Schwaiger Wappen bloodlines. We are not irresponsible breeders, but are looking to improve the breed. My mother n law has bred these rottweilers years ago and my passion is to learn and educate myself on how to hold on to the bloodline while improving it. I will be breeding Carter's Noble Cleopatra, she is full litter mate to Shaka Zulu "Top winning Rottweiler in World History of the breed" Her bloodlines are descended from Schwaiger Wappen aslo. As far as doing my "homework" that is what I'm doing by asking this question, hoping someone more experienced in that department could give me an answer without judging and making me explain my reasons for asking a question. Both rottweilers are in perfect health and have no trouble with mating. Neither are ever pissed off. Cleo will be bred to Wsg 2001, INT.Ch, Yug./Hun. Ch Bronko od Dragicevica IPO 3 X CH SCG, 4 x C.A.C. Bea Se Ungo - Rot IPO. Cleo is 7 and has had only 1 litter. I will breed her only once and want to do it as accurately as possible. I do need to get a good book, any suggestions on which one? As for my first question, do you think it is possible to tie to many times, still only doing it every other day. I think it is a good theory, they are bound to hit 2 ties while ovulating if only ovulating for 3 to 4 days........
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2009, 05:44 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

I would also expect that a healthy male with adequate sperm-count bred to a healthy bitch with quality eggs should produce a good amount of healthy puppies with just one breeding (as I did 18 months ago although I did progesterone testing so I knew when she ovulated) ....

Only ripe eggs will be able to be penetrated by the sperm, so obviously timing is everything as they are ripe and ready 72 hours after ovulation.

I am a total advocate for progesterone testing, it leave less to the imagination (and worry).

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  #6  
Old 01-19-2009, 05:55 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

There are MILLIONS of sperm in each ejaculation. You certainly see reduced sperm counts with too many ties in quick succession, but it's not because of the ties, or because the sperm "cross each other out", it's because the male has used up what he has stored at the time. Sperm can live in the bitch's body for days, and there are always millions more sperm than eggs in a breeding.
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  #7  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:52 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

So basically everyother day should be successful. It would be 4 ties with in 7 days. Why do most only do 2 ties?
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:28 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

If you know when your bitch is ovulating you only need to do one or two breedings. Thats one reason progesterones are so important.
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:30 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

Nice female :) Hope all goes well for you.
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  #10  
Old 01-19-2009, 09:32 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

. Cleo is 7 and has had only 1 litter. I will breed her only once and want to do it as accurately as possible.
Why are you breeding a 7 yr old? How long ago did she have that 1 litter?
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  #11  
Old 01-19-2009, 10:02 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Von Nia View Post
As for my first question, do you think it is possible to tie to many times, still only doing it every other day. I think it is a good theory, they are bound to hit 2 ties while ovulating if only ovulating for 3 to 4 days........
Your original question was about sperm competition and there actually may be some merit to it. However, when breeding to only one dog, this should not be an issue.

I have been doing a lot of research about this now that multiple sired litters are allowable. There's a great little book titled Promiscuity by Tim Birkhead, published by Harvard University Press. I picked it up at the Queen's University Bookstore. It includes some fascinating theories about Sperm Competition in may species.

Best of luck with your breeding.

Edited to say: For what it's worth, I had a bitch stand for beeding eight days straight once and produce a singleton. Her daughter then had one fresh chilled AI breeding that produced 10 pups. Timing is everything, but there are also a lot of other factors that we have less control of such as number of eggs that are ready, quality of the uterus etc.
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2009, 11:47 PM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

Sorry to have assumed you were one of the many not-so-responsible breeders we see here. Your question was not unlike the questions we get from them.

I am interested in the answer to the question about breeding a seven year old. (I see that her other litter was whelped just over three years ago, December 2005.) Since most who answered don't think there is a need for many ties, and to mimimize risk of injury, the hormone testing seems like a good idea.
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Last edited by observer; 01-19-2009 at 11:55 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2009, 02:04 AM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

Your original question was about sperm competition and there actually may be some merit to it. If you have the time I would love to hear more on this regarding sperm competition regards using the one male. I understand the principle when taking into consideration multiple sires but what effect does sperm competition have regarding a singular male?

For what it's worth I Mate from the first date that they will tie, every second day until they are no longer keen. Except if I have had a bitch that is more difficult to get pregnant I will do everyday once I have seen that the mating time is coming to an end. However I wouldn't have a problem letting them mate everyday.

As for Prog tests etc I no longer have them done, except for AI, as I have gone back to a more old school thought pattern of if they can't mate on their own then they are not strong enough to be mated. Once I have picked the pari I want as little to do with the mating as possable and would rather miss a mating than get too involved within it. I see people holding bitches, helping males on etc and want nothing to do with this. If the male is too poor a judge of when she is ovulating then he is not a dog I want to mate from.

As for the age issue, If the bitch is truly healthy and has done few other matings I would breed a 7 year old bitch. I would take it on a case by case basis and would not recommend it across the board but some bitches do a litter easily and are natural breeders and I personally wouldn't rule out mating a bitch at this age. I have only owned 2 bitches that I would have said I would be comfortable doing this with but have no problem with it on the whole.

I will breed her only once and want to do it as accurately as possible. Do you mean that you will only let them mate once or that she will have only one more litter? Just a little confused.

Just out of interest what made you pick Bronko as the stud?

Mick.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2009, 02:10 AM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

For breeding a bitch who has only whelped 1 litter at that age scares me.Period. Granted a good stud. BUT think about the bitch.
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  #15  
Old 01-20-2009, 02:16 AM
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Re: Can too many ties breed out puppies?

Sorry for getting off track. With breeding with chilled semen I forgot about the actual mating. With natural breedings 2 ties (if with the right timing) should do it. Why work the dog out.
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