How to tell a COE breeder from a BYB?

[kilasmamix3]

Well i spent alot of time researching. My breeder is a COE breeder, but i just wanted to see if i could start a thread to infrom the newer people on this site that still don't know how to tell a COE from a BYB. So i came to you guys for help explaining, hopefully this will be a helpful thread. Not sure yet, but hey i'm trying to help so if you guys would help too, i'd appriciate it (:

Ready, Set, Go. Tell the people your knowlege..

Dezaree

[kilasmamix3]

I'll go first.

I heard they should not be breeding more then 1-3 litters a year.

Must be willing to answer your questions without being annoyed and should interveiw you back to make sure that you are fit to own one of the dogs.

Should NOT let you choose the puppy they should choose it for you based on your answers and questions.

Am I correct? I have no clue..

[spidey]

They show and trial their dogs (at least basic level titles - conformation showing titles indicate that someone other than the breeder feels the dogs are good examples of the breed, performance titles indicate that the dog is trainable). They sell puppies on contracts which require the owner to return the dog to the breeder if at ANY point in the dog's life the owner cannot keep it. They perform proper health testing for the breed and are more than happy to show the owner the certifications ("my vet said my dog was healthy" or "my vet says the hips are good" is not acceptable, there should be certifications done by a recognized body: OFA, CERF, PennHIP, etc. - there is NO excuse for not doing this IMO). They do not breed to make money as the primary goal. They are available to you throughout the life of the dog. They should ensure that you are able to provide a suitable home for the breed and make sure that you know the things you might not like about the breed. They should know their breed and their lines well.

[Shane]

For starters, here's the USRC Code of Ethics.

USRC Breeder's Directory

USRC Registered Kennels
USRC Registered Kennels have agreed to abide by the following breeding regulations:

* will only breed Rottweilers that comply with the USRC Standard for the Rottweiler.
* will only breed Rottweilers that are at least 2 years of age.
* will only breed Rottweilers that have been certified free, HD+/-, HD A or HD B for hip dysplasia by OFA, or an FCI member kennel club or Rottweilers that have a valid USRC recognized Ztp. If docking, will only dock tails on dogs less than 7 days old and will dock the entire litter.
* At the present time, USRC does not require Registered Kennels to only breed Rottweilers who have a recognized breed test or working title. However, USRC litter registration does require both parents to possess a recognized breed test.

USRC Registered Breeders

* In addition to the above, USRC Registered Breeders have agreed to the following breeding regulations:
* will only breed or breed to bitches that are less than nine years old and have a USRC recognized breed test.
* will only breed or breed to males that are less than ten years old and have a USRC recognized breed test
* will register all litters with USRC.

And the ARC Mandatory Practices:

American Rottweiler Club Mandatory Practices

These MANDATORY PRACTICES are established in accordance with the objectives of The AMERICAN ROTTWEILER CLUB. Adherence to these MANDATORY PRACTICES is required of all members.

INTRODUCTION: The Rottweiler is above all a working dog and must exhibit the temperament, intelligence and structure of a working companion. The physical appearance should be as described in the Rottweiler Standard approved by the American Kennel Club May 8, 1990.

AS AN ARC MEMBER, I SHALL ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING MANDATORY PRACTICES:

1. Study and strive to conserve and improve the breed in structure, temperament and working ability, never sacrificing one for the others.
2. Breed only AKC registered dogs and bitches which have OFA certified hips (or HD-free hips as certified by foreign counterparts of the OFA). Imported Rottweilers must have OFA hip certification within six months after arrival in U.S.A. If frozen semen is used from an imported Rottweiler, the dog must be x-rayed and certified by the OFA or foreign counterpart at no less than 24 months of age. Breed only dogs and bitches of stable temperament with no disqualifying physical faults according to the AKC Rottweiler Standard (i.e., entropion, ectropion, overshot, undershot, wry mouth, two or more missing teeth, unilateral cryptorchid or cryptorchid males, long coat, any base color other than black, absence of all markings.)
3. Offer at stud, with a signed, written contract, only mature (two years of age or older) healthy dogs with OFA certified normal hips, free of communicable diseases, having none of the faults listed in Section 2 above. Refuse stud service to any bitch not meeting the same requirements.
4. Breed only bitches two years of age or older with OFA certified normal hips, in good health, free of communicable diseases, having none of the faults listed above in Section 2, to not more than one stud dog at any one season, and not more than two out of three consecutive seasons. Plan all litters with the goal of improving the breed.
5. Maintain the highest possible standards of health, cleanliness and care of all dogs. Dogs shall be contained within safe restrictions when the breeder/owner cannot personally supervise their safety.
6. Choose names for AKC registration which do not use prefixes or kennel names associated with other recognized breeders of Rottweilers in the U.S., Canada, Germany or any other foreign country, unless written permission is obtained from the original user of the name.
7. Sell all dogs with a signed, written contract. All dogs/puppies sold must be guaranteed to be in healthy condition, including adequate protection against known diseases. Keep and pass on to buyers accurate health, breeding and registration records and pedigree records of at least three generations. Registration papers may be withheld or breeder's rights retained only by mutual agreement in writing, signed by both parties. Require that all Rottweilers not purchased as show and breeding stock be made incapable of reproducing, and require that limited registration "blue slips" be provided, or that registration papers be withheld until a veterinarian's certificate is received as proof of sterilization. Release puppies to their new home only after they reach seven weeks of age.
8. Evaluate honestly according to the AKC Rottweiler Standard, and state clearly to the Buyer the quality of any Rottweiler sold. All advertising shall be honest and informative and shall in no way misrepresent the stock offered. Prices shall be based on individual merit and shall not be included in any advertising.
9. Sell only to responsible persons and not knowingly sell to anyone or any entity who engages in any activity which might exploit the breed. Rottweilers shall not be given as prizes, offered in raffles, or sold at auctions, nor shall Rottweilers be exploited in any detrimental manner.
10. Breeders recognize that they have a lifetime responsibility for puppies produced by their brood bitch or stud dog. Breeders and stud dog owners recognize the inherent obligation to provide a stable environment that protects each puppy's physical and emotional well being. This includes helping to relocate to a new home a puppy (or adult dog) with which the owner is dissatisfied, or taking that puppy (or adult) back. Any provisions for refunds or reimbursement of expenses shall be handled in the contract between breeder and owner. No puppy or adult dog bred or owned by an ARC member shall be disposed of in an animal shelter or pound unless required to do so by law.
11. Observe the highest standards of sportsmanship and good will at shows, obedience and herding trials, and at any other event involving Rottweilers. Assist all newcomers to the breed so that they may be guided in the ways that can best conserve and improve the Rottweiler.

AS AN ARC MEMBER, I SHALL ENCOURAGE THE FOLLOWING RECOMMENDED PRACTICES:

1. Encourage working titles to retain the breed's correct working temperament. Encourage the showing of future breeding animals in the conformation ring, keeping in mind that the purpose of such shows is to improve the breed by objective evaluation of the animals in competition according to the Breed Standard.
2. Encourage the recommendation that all dogs should be tattooed or microchipped in an individual and identifiable manner before having hips x-rayed. Also encourage the recommendation that all dogs have their eyes checked yearly by a veterinary ophthalmologist and that the presence of other hereditary diseases such as elbow dysplasia, von Willebrand's disease, subaortic stenosis and hypothyroidism be checked for prior to breeding.

[kilasmamix3]

Wow; that was a long post to read. Thanks for that.

Don't think this thread was going anywhere (: lol.

But yeah, still that was very informative.

It was really hard to find a COE breeder. How was it for you guys?

Dezaree

[targonrotts]

AKC COE breeders belong to a COE club, whether at the national level or a local specialty club.
they show their dogs, breed to improve the breed, OFA, health test their dogs.
they are there to answer your questions, interview you before they sell you a pup.
they guarrantee the pups they sell, and are willing to take them back if any problems arise.

[Kev]

For many examples of BYB just look on Kijiji

[Valentine]

Originally Posted by Kev

For many examples of BYB just look on Kijiji

Good one!!! hahah or even Craigslist AND your local newspaper!! I don't think COE breeders post ads on kijiji or Craigslist about breedings or litters...Most don't anyways because they usually have a LOOONG waiting list for their dogs!!!

[AndOne707]

thanks for all the good information... this helps a lot of peeps that we happen to be new into this community when it comes to identifying a byb.

[kilasmamix3]

was is just me or wasn't it really hard to find a COE breeder?
What are ur expieriences??

Dezaree

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by kilasmamix3

was is just me or wasn't it really hard to find a COE breeder?
What are ur expieriences??

Dezaree

Not really...you just have to know where to look.
Join your Rottweiler Club, join your local Rottweiler club (State or city), and start going to shows or working events.

Once good breeders get to know you, and know what you plan to do with your puppy....you should have no problems. You may have to wait...but patience is a virtue.

I was offered a puppy from a great litter a couple of weeks ago....but right at the moment it's not the time for us to be bringing a puppy into our home.
It was nice to be asked though.

Gina

[kilasmamix3]

I didn't know about that... I just kept searching for breeders and asking other people around. I guess next rottie i get in a WHILE since i already have 2 little mosters actually sleeping together on Tatiana's bed sharing it. Aww, haha how cute. Anyways, back on topic, since i guess i don't really have to find another breeder since i could just call mine up always.. Haha, better luck next time i guess.. maybe i could do that for a pitbull breeder in a few years when my guy goes to the bridge.. /: Or maybe i'll just stick to rescueing and fostering (:

Dezaree

[Teresa]

Major BYB or "commercial" warning signs:
Taking credit cards, advertised "ship anywhere", no invesitagation of you as a potential owner, large non-refundable deposits, litters always available, running ad in the newspaper, not getting to pick your own puppy, everything claimed as show quality, high prices for "European pedigrees", but no titles, any health guarantee that requires you euthanize or return dog to the breeder. Fancy websites don't equate to good dogs or even humanely treated dogs. Many high risk breeders require you to breed the dog later (regardless of quality or health) and give them puppies back - there are a *few* COE breeders that do this to some extent, but think carefully before you agree to this and whether it's to help a breeder maintain a bloodline, or just a pyramid scheme to make money.

Good signs to look for in COE breeders:
No more than 1-2 litters per year, all 4 recommended clearances disclosed on all breeding stock (CHIC), parents have been shown/titled in conformation or performance (preferably both). Expect a LOT of questions about you, your lifestyle, history of dogs, intentions for the puppy. Expect a spay/neuter requirement for pets, a policy of taking back any dog at any time if needed, and reasonable health guarantees (refunds or replacements). Breeder should ideally be a member of at least one *actual* COE club. ALL health clearances can be *verified* on the OFA website (general statement that breeding stock is OFA certified doesn't cut it). Breeder is willing to discuss and help you pick the best puppy for YOU (should do temperament and conformation evaluations before sending home), and will never force you to take a dog so you don't lose a deposit.

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by Teresa

all 4 recommended clearances disclosed on all breeding stock (CHIC), parents have been shown/titled in conformation or performance (preferably both). .

I prefer to see health clearances done & posted (pass or fail) on ALL the dogs, not *just* breeding stock. If you have 6 puppies in a litter and only 2 have their health clearances, it kinda makes you wonder why

[excellrott]

Found mine easy enough.......went to a dog show and immediately found her winning all the prizes. haha A few years later and here I am on the list waiting for my first show puppy. yay!
Well it wasn't that easy, but it seemed to be......She helped me research both sides of the pedigree for the breeding I choose and answered all my questions almost immediately. I recommend visiting shows above and/or combined with internet seaches, any day.