Newbie question about buying from Germany

[Mara]

Hi,

I'm a newbie. I'm looking to buy a Rott puppy from a breeder in Germany. I won't be able to see the pup; I'd have it shipped to me in Texas (I live near San Antonio). So I won't get his best pup. But the parents are great (no HD or ED, of course): the mother is Freya vom Räuberweg (sister of Filou) and the sire is Hassan von der Thalheimer Flur (son of Mambo von der Crossener Ranch). I figure I can count on a healthy dog. But I'm interested in hearing from anyone who thinks that my plan is a mistake. Also, I'm interested in hearing if anyone would argue strongly that I should buy from a local breeder, and if so who that breeder would be (I guess we can't name specific breeders?).

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Mara

[brunie's mom]

Why are you interested in getting a pup from Germany? What are your plans for this pup?
Do you think (American/Canadian) pups are not as good?
It may be a great puppy...but unless you really know the breeder or someone that you know, knows the breeder, it could be a roll of the dice. Also, most German Rottweilers do not have their hearts tested...and there are a few members here that have puppies from sire/dams from Germany that have heart problems.

I was doing a bit of research thinking of getting a Rottie pup from Italy (hubbies Italian)....but unless I go and meet the breeder and their dogs....I thought it was too risky.

Hopefully there will be a few members here that have imported puppies from Germany and they will be able to help you.

Gina

[Mara]

Hi, Gina, thanks for your reply. I've two reasons, but the first is most important: the first is that I can tell clearly that the parents have been breed for health (I've never heard about the heart problem you mention). The other reason is that my wife likes the look of the German dogs. I do worry about my lack of knowledge of the breeder. No flags went up in my communications with him, but I'd feel better if there were a way to check out breeders. I gather that this forum cannot mention specific breeders unfortunately. The dog will be a house pet. We've had one before, from American, which had every joint problem imaginable!

[brunie's mom]

Heart problems are big in this breed. I would never buy a puppy from dogs that have not had their hearts certified.
The standard for Rottweilers is the same... from Germany, Italy, Canada or USA....the only difference will be the tails.

What you probably had was a poorly bred Rottweiler...I would not be blaming the joint problems on being American bred.

Take a look at the "stickies" on the Breeding forum..learn what a good breeder is.
You really would not be able to tell a well bred Rottweiler that was from Germany or born in North America.

If you are just wanting a house pet (I'm surprised the breeder in Germany would sell you a puppy)....then look into adopting a rescue dog. There are so many beautiful dogs sitting in shelters or in a rescue that need homes.

Gina

[Nishasmom]

There are several great breeders in Texas; you should try going to some dog shows, or competitions (Schutzhund, Rally, ect.). I don't really go to events very frequently, but I know they are always having "shows/events" at the Triple Crown club(?) http://www.triplecrowndogs.com/142/Events.htm here is a link to there "events" page. It wouldn't be too far of a drive, and you might get to see some rotties you like .

Even if you don't find a dog in Texas, maybe at least get one a little bit closer than Germany...this way you could meet the breeder.

[frontierrots]

Buying a dog from germany or any country in NO way assures anyone that the dogs have been bred for HEALTH. Snce almost NO breeders outside of the US and Canada actually test the dogs hearts or eyes and in some countries even the hip and elbow certifications are a joke because almost every dog exported is touted as HD- ED- from those countries (and the rating rarely prove to be such when the dogs are re done here!)

Many countries like to say they have no heart problems but it's just not true. If it's a Rottweiler then the odds are high the genes are there in the population of that country. In other countries a lot of dogs die of "heat stroke" and "poisoning" yeah....... If you do not test for something you cannot say it is not there. Ignoring it does not make it not exist

That said many US breeders also do almost no testing. You have to do your own research and checking of relatives and background

[Mara]

Thanks. I wonder if there is some sort of certification for heart condition. I'll need to look into that.

[frontierrots]

The OFA certifies dogs hearts. A cardiologist fills out a form after an exam (even though OFA accepts practitioner exams they are not worth the paper they are printed on) if the dog is normal you get a pink OFA certificate

Go to OFA Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and do a search for my young girl Frontier Komotion That will show you what a certification number looks like. In Annie's case her's is C at the end for cardiologist and ECHO because her heart was dopplar echo'd as well.

A few overseas breeders are sending heart certifications in to OFA also

Check the stickies in this forum for certifications and Gretchen posted actual photos of what they look like

The heart condition plaguing our breed is Sub Aortic stenosis SAS. Do a search here too and you'll find lots

[poohbearsmom]

I have NOT had good luck with puppies from Europe. I threw good money after bad, and PTS one pup on her 6mos birthday, and the second this spring just before she turned 2yo. That sucked big time, and I still lose sleep over it. Burying puppies is NO FUN.

The breeder I chose has a good reputation, and tends to do things "by the book", but for me, the experience sucked, and I'm out a lot of money (for a working stiff like me). Hell, the shipping cost as much or more than the puppies, and with the exchange rate right now, you could buy 3 puppies for what you'll end up paying in the long run!

This is just MY experience, and I know people who have very nice dogs out of this particular kennel. I'm certainly not trying to trash this breeder; caca happens, but I evidently wasn't destined to own one of these dogs! My luck ran out, and I should have just gotten a refund on the first pup, rather than trust I'd get top quality for a "free" replacement. Most EU breeders don't give ANY guarantees, nor do they help you like most COE breeders here in the States do. "You buy the dog, thank you, good bye, have a nice life!".

Therefore, for a companion dog home, I would give the advice:

There are enough breeders here in this Country (and Canada) that do the appropriate health testing, who use strong lines, and who will be there for you if you need it, that there is really no need to go afar, unless you are developing a good relationship with those overseas, and you are a serious breeder yourself looking to freshen up your bloodlines.

Research and you should be able to find what you want here.

My 2 cents.

[Mara]

Very helpful. So your dog's results were:
RO-CA2889/19F/C-PI-ECHO CARDIAC May 6 2007 May 24 2007 19 NORMAL - CARDIOLOGIST, ECHO
And that means the heart was normal. I'll see if there's are record for the parents of the pup I'm looking to buy.
Thanks again!

[observer]

I agree with Elizabeth, and the others. It sounds like you can't in fact "guarantee that German pups are bred for health". As far as the "look of the German dogs" unless you are referring to tails, a quality Rottweiler in Germany and one in this country look essentially the same.

If you should run into a problem, having a breeder within a reasonable distance and on the same side of the "pond" would be worth a lot.

And, if you are just looking for a wonderful companion, I'd consider rescue. Some really fine dogs end up in rescues, and will give you what you are seeking -- and make you feel really good in the process!

[rottcrazed]

I would also like to add to all of the great advice above that there should be no difference in the 'look' of a German bred Rottweiler with the one exception of it's natural tail, beyond that, a Rott is a Rott is a Rott (from a reputable breeder that is!).

Kristi

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by brunie's mom

...I'm surprised the breeder in Germany would sell you a puppy...

I evaluated a Rottie for my rescue group that was imported from Germany. The dog was bought by an American serviceman and his family when they were stationed in Germany. When they returned to the States, they brought the dog back with them. They found they couldn't keep him so they contacted my rescue group.

I'd never seen a German import before, so was very curious. However, I did think that since the dog was sold to an American, the dog likely wasn't much.

I could scarcely believe what I saw.

POG.

Piece of garbage, structurally, and soft, easy temperament. I'll bet that dog's breeder laughed all the way to the bank.

[gilby00]

other than the tail, another difference is drive, yes you can get a very drivey dog here, but for the most part, IMO the working ability is much better in dogs you get from Germany. Also their are more breeders in germany who stay within the standard. That's not to say breeders here breed out of standard, but rotties have gotten so big and lost the working ability. another difference is most german breeders won't give you any sort of guarantee on the pup. I know when I sell a puppy to a buyer, they know i'll stand behind the pup. In germany your going to spend 3-5k for a pup and in a year the hip may be bad, you get no refund or another pup etc.....and like you said your not going to see the dog, and chances are it's not going to be one of the better ones out of the litter. JMHO

[gilby00]

ps, just because the parents don't have HD/ED doesn't mean the puppy won't. HD/ED are recessive gene, it can pop out anytime, you have a 1/4 shot at getting HD/ED even with breeding 2 excellent rated dogs