Newbie question about buying from Germany

[OnyxGold1]

I've seen a lot of european imports (from Germany, Czechoslovakia, Serbia) in my dog show travels and have not yet seen one that I have liked. What drives me crazy is the big ring tails that all possess.....and I KNOW that this is not the norm from the dogs that are shown in Europe. The one woman who comes to mind up in these parts who imports a ton of european dogs always complains to me that she doesn't know why she gets so many dogs that are missing teeth. I've also seen a lot of really light colored eyes in many of this lady's dogs as well.

Personally I think the German (& other european breeders) are savvy enough to dump the dogs that they KNOW have faults (with tail set or otherwise) onto unsuspecting foreign buyers who think they're getting a fantastic dog. Why would they want to export their best stock?

Now I do know of a lady who got a wonderful young male (from Austria I believe??) however she had contacts in the country and spoke the language due to her parentage and got a beautiful male which she imported. Of course I'm sure she paid a small mint in mere shipping but she did get a high drive athletic boy that she is currently training to a ton of things with her ultimate goal being a Sch III with him.

If your goal is to have a tailed dog then there are a lot of breeders in both Canada and the US who are primarily interested in the sieger / working venues who are now leaving tails on their dogs. I know of one litter that was just bred to a highly ethical breeder in Quebec....you could probably check the Rottweiler Club of Canada website to find it.......where she bred her young fully health tested bitch to an imported male who was imported as an adult with a ton of show placements/wins in Germany & Europe. This breeder is leaving tails on her puppies as her interest is not in CKC or AKC conformation but rather Sieger/working venues. I'm sure that there are numerous breeders such as her in the US as well.

A good way to find them would likely be to check litter listings (if there are any) from the USRC/Sieger show wins etc.

I purchased ONE pup once sight unseen from a breeder in another province and was sorely disappointed in what I got.......I told myself then and there I would NEVER be buying a pup sight unseen again.....JMO but staves off a lot of disappointment!!

Heather Peters

[Mara]

I checked out the sire and dam of the pups I'm looking to get, and they are not listed on OFA. Too bad.

[Mara]

I haven't looked around a lot, but so far the price for pups from Germany are about the same as pups from here in the USA, even if I add in costs for delivery! Several here in the states advertise pups for 3K, plus delivery. In Germany, pups are closer to half that.

[Mara]

Sure, but I don't know how to improve my odds for a healthy pup better than by seeking out good genetics in the parents.

[Mara]

Thanks very much. About the tail: it seems wholly unnecessary to cut off the tail, and far more humane not to. Also, Rotts with tails are at least as beautiful as ones without. So it is best not to cut. However, cropping isn't the concern. My wife likes the look of German dogs for two reasons: first, the head is proportionally larger, and second, the dogs are more compact. At least that is our impression!
Anyway, our goal is to have a dog that will live as long as possible with as few significant health problems as possible. We bought our first Rott from someone who was not a skilled breeder, and ended up spending huge amounts on joint surgeries. We know we'll never return a dog to a breeder, and so we want to make sure we get the healthiest genetics as possible.

[TrinaJ]

I can understand if you were importing a proven titled German dog with all health clearances for breeding purposes but a puppy??? Not only will you be paying for the puppy, you will also be paying to have the puppy imported to the US, you will also be putting the puppy into quarantine for a period of time, which in my opinion is not good for a puppy. This is the time for a puppy to be socialized and loved, not to be put in a cage with no interaction with you.

Your German rottweiler will have a tail. The standards for Rotty's in Germany, Canada, USA, Australia, UK etc are all the same, so I am unsure as to what other differences your wife can spot....

You've stated you dont want to show the puppy, why are you going to such an expense for a dog you say will be pet quality only? Can you not buy a puppy in the US or Canada (with a tail because that's the only difference you will see) for less money and put the rest of the money in an account for emergency's. Better still, there are thousands of abandoned rottweilers all over the US and Canada who would so love to have a home to call their own with someone who will love them and teach them.

If you are still set on getting a dog with German bloodlines, then get a puppy from the US where both parents were imported from Germany, you will save yourself time and money....BUT remember, just because a dog was born in Germany or has German bloodlines doesn't mean that the puppy will be healthy - you never really know what can happen. Just make sure both dog and bitch were heath certified and OFA registered.

Just my 2 cents worth....which is nearly worth 2 cents in the US now!!

[Mara]

Thanks for the thoughts. Two quick things: first, cost seems to be a wash, since breeders in the USA appear to charge more than breeders in Germany--so much so that I can pay for import fees and still pay about the same. At least, that is true of the breeders who have given me prices (they are pretty reluctant!) Second, while I admire people who adopt Rotts, I would not do that. I need to start with a pup, and make sure it gets proper training.
A few people have pointed out that I can't be sure about health just because a dog comes from Germany. True enough. But is there any way to be more sure about a dog's health than to pick a pup with parents that are certified not to have significant health problems?
I'd certainly prefer to buy local, but so far I've been stumped in my efforts to locate a breeder with sires and dams that have top-notch genetics (except ones that charge 3K per dog).

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by TrinaJ

I can understand if you were importing a proven titled German dog with all health clearances for breeding purposes but a puppy??? Not only will you be paying for the puppy, you will also be paying to have the puppy imported to the US, you will also be putting the puppy into quarantine for a period of time, which in my opinion is not good for a puppy. This is the time for a puppy to be socialized and loved, not to be put in a cage with no interaction with you.

Your German rottweiler will have a tail. The standards for Rotty's in Germany, Canada, USA, Australia, UK etc are all the same, so I am unsure as to what other differences your wife can spot....

You've stated you dont want to show the puppy, why are you going to such an expense for a dog you say will be pet quality only? Can you not buy a puppy in the US or Canada (with a tail because that's the only difference you will see) for less money and put the rest of the money in an account for emergency's. Better still, there are thousands of abandoned rottweilers all over the US and Canada who would so love to have a home to call their own with someone who will love them and teach them.

If you are still set on getting a dog with German bloodlines, then get a puppy from the US where both parents were imported from Germany, you will save yourself time and money....BUT remember, just because a dog was born in Germany or has German bloodlines doesn't mean that the puppy will be healthy - you never really know what can happen. Just make sure both dog and bitch were heath certified and OFA registered.

Just my 2 cents worth....which is nearly worth 2 cents in the US now!!

We don't have a quarantine like Australia does.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Mara

Thanks for the thoughts. Two quick things: first, cost seems to be a wash, since breeders in the USA appear to charge more than breeders in Germany--so much so that I can pay for import fees and still pay about the same. At least, that is true of the breeders who have given me prices (they are pretty reluctant!) Second, while I admire people who adopt Rotts, I would not do that. I need to start with a pup, and make sure it gets proper training.
A few people have pointed out that I can't be sure about health just because a dog comes from Germany. True enough. But is there any way to be more sure about a dog's health than to pick a pup with parents that are certified not to have significant health problems?
I'd certainly prefer to buy local, but so far I've been stumped in my efforts to locate a breeder with sires and dams that have top-notch genetics (except ones that charge 3K per dog).

They are everywhere. Keep looking. Check with Regional Rottweiler Clubs, they know what's on the ground or being bred soon. Go to Dog Shows! Meet the breeders. Many breeders don't have websites, so the only way you'll find them is pounding the pavement, so to speak.

Bottom line, don't be in a hurry- whether you get one from this side of the Atlantic or beyond.

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

We don't have a quarantine like Australia does.

Really? I had no idea. I thought that all countries had a quarantine period like we do, see you do learn something everyday here!!

Trina

[Mara]

I think this is true (no quarantine). I've been in touch with PetAir in Frankfurt, which is a pet transportation outfit, and there was no mention of any US quarantine. Incidentally if anyone is interested the charge for bringing in a pup from Germany (they all go through Frankfurt) to Texas is about $625 for Houston and about $675 for San Antonio.

[observer]

Originally Posted by Mara

Thanks for the thoughts. Two quick things: first, cost seems to be a wash, since breeders in the USA appear to charge more than breeders in Germany--so much so that I can pay for import fees and still pay about the same. At least, that is true of the breeders who have given me prices (they are pretty reluctant!) Second, while I admire people who adopt Rotts, I would not do that. I need to start with a pup, and make sure it gets proper training.
A few people have pointed out that I can't be sure about health just because a dog comes from Germany. True enough. But is there any way to be more sure about a dog's health than to pick a pup with parents that are certified not to have significant health problems?
I'd certainly prefer to buy local, but so far I've been stumped in my efforts to locate a breeder with sires and dams that have top-notch genetics (except ones that charge 3K per dog).

You've already been given ideas about where to look for puppies that won't cost 3000 that will meet your needs.

If you're set on a puppy, fine. Lots of adult rescue dogs have, in fact, been properly trained and have sound minds.

You may not be able to buy "local". You might have to go to an out of state breeder, but you will be able to travel reasonably to go see the puppies and meet the breeder face to face, and they will match you with the pup that meets your needs... rather than getting whatever the German breeder wants to cast off to you. And, you will be able to bring the puppy home with you under the seat of the plane, or in a car.... a LOT cheaper, depending on where you end up buying.

Certified parents are one thing (if you can trust the German certifications) but you really need to look beyond the first generation back.

Again, well-bred pups in Germany and here (the breed standard is the same) will look the same, except the tail.

[piddleypooh]

I think its hard to generalize that "all European Dogs" have this, or that. Yes, you can find top quality as well as poor quality on any continent. That being said, I do think that many European dogs maintain more overall type than their american counterparts, in General, keeping in mind, there are exceptions in both instances. So, I do understand what your wife is referring to.

I suggest you read Steve Wolfson's articles in the ARC, regarding the differences in American vs. European dogs.

http://www.amrottclub.org/articles/Zygomatic_Arch.pdf

[Kandi]

My suggestion would be to continue your shopping before making a commitment for the puppy you seem to want. I don't know about others, but I paid approximately $1500 for each one of my girls. Both are happy, and healthy. The one is simply my house dog, the other my show. The show girl is not yet 2 years, so only one health clearance has been done to date, but my point is, I paid no more than what you are planning on paying for your German import puppy, and my girls' parents do have health clearances done. So, hopefully when the time comes, mine shall pass all of her clearances as well. But, essentially, all puppies are crapshoots. If they have it, they have it. But at least here in American, most ethical breeders are getting all clearances possible.
Good luck with your puppy search.
Kandi

[winnie22]

When you deal with a breeder out of the country, you have no guarantee that the parents they are telling you are truly the parents. They can have poor breeding stock just used to make $. This is true in this country too but at least you can see the parents and the interactions with the pups.