East Coast Stud dogs

[JoJo]

ya know JoJo I'm beginning to wonder if you are having this conversation elsewhere with someone else because you keep coming up with things I never said and disregarding what I do say

Diane I'm only going to say this one more time and it's you who needs to stop reading into things that aren't there. I have never said nor would I ever say that you breed bad temperaments. In fact that would be a reckless thing for me to even consider since I have never met your dogs. For that matter, I've never met you, but I have seen your dogs on your website. Furthermore, just because I'm a novice and not a breeder doesn't make me ignorant of what a rottweiler should be.

[targonrotts]

Originally Posted by toobad

The winningest Rottweiler in the history of the breed is not anywhere near a perfect dog and SOME wouldn't breed to him because he has no " working " titles. Add to that the fact he has a questionable elbow and you wonder why people line up to breed to him. Some people are just looking for a name on a pedigree and THAT is what is sad !

When you get right down to it .... it is usually about the money that can be made and not so much what you really get in the finished product.

Just my opinion of course :)

i just happen to own 2 pups out of that particular dog, which i bred, and have accquired many titles in different venues.
i am just not well off in money and can do only some shows at a time and some titles at a time. but on my low income and breeding to the dog wth no work titles, i have agility, flyball,conformation,obedience, rally, carting, therapy dog titles and they just turned 3 this week.

as to his elbow, he has his results listed...and many other big names do too or just chose to omit it.

sure, i have seen dogs in the past that were not shown much that should have been the most winningest rott ever, but he was at the right place and time and had full owner dedication.

just like many conformation people only live and breathe conformation...and have no idea or interest in any other activity with their dogs. not that the dog can't do it...they are just not iven a chance.

[toobad]

Originally Posted by targonrotts

i just happen to own 2 pups out of that particular dog, which i bred, and have accquired many titles in different venues.
i am just not well off in money and can do only some shows at a time and some titles at a time. but on my low income and breeding to the dog wth no work titles, i have agility, flyball,conformation,obedience, rally, carting, therapy dog titles and they just turned 3 this week.

as to his elbow, he has his results listed...and many other big names do too or just chose to omit it.

sure, i have seen dogs in the past that were not shown much that should have been the most winningest rott ever, but he was at the right place and time and had full owner dedication.

just like many conformation people only live and breathe conformation...and have no idea or interest in any other activity with their dogs. not that the dog can't do it...they are just not iven a chance.

Congrats on what you have done with your pups.

I was only saying that there are MANY people out there who wouldn't breed to him because he has no working title ( work as in Schutzhund ). MANY people don't consider ANY of those other titles as anything more than a piece of paper. Not saying that I feel that way at all. I have a male I feel is worthy of being bred on health ( keeping my fingers crossed ) and conformation. He has a great temperment but he will never get a SCH title. My plan was to work him in a weight pulling group and see how he does. People just feel that isn't enough and that without a working title I am doing a dis-service to the breed. MANY MANY people think that if a dog won't do bite work he, or she isn't worth breeding and that is just a sad fact.

His elbow doesn't bother me at all, it is minor BUT I don't think he should be bred to a bitch with the same problem no matter how minor. That just isn't how you get perfection but some find it acceptable.

Oh by the way, I have a girl here and her whole top of her pedigree are those dogs. She is smart and healthy so I have no complaints

[frontierrots]

Originally Posted by toobad

Congrats on what you have done with your pups.

I was only saying that there are MANY people out there who wouldn't breed to him because he has no working title ( work as in Schutzhund ). MANY people don't consider ANY of those other titles as anything more than a piece of paper. Not saying that I feel that way at all.

and people who feel like that and say things like that are snotty stuck up pieces of work. Sorry. If it's something other than conformation it is work. Agility, Rally, Obedience, Flyball, Tracking, Carting, herding.... Sch is not the be all to end all in ANY breed. If it's your thing, great I am glad. I like to watch a good routine too. If it's not yours or your dogs thing that's fine too, do something else

WHATEVER you do with your dog, it is good

[Anton]

Originally Posted by JoJo

You are missing the whole boat here. You are the one who started this topic about finding that stud dog with all these bells and whistles that your require, yet when a novice (me) asks the obvious or (those questions that no one else dared to) you dance around it and take all these things personally. I'm just pointing out that once again, when you ask for the impossible, then you first need to look at what you have to offer before demanding so much of others. This goes for ALL breeders. So yes, I shouldn't be saying "you" personally, but stressing you as a generalization. So stop taking this so personally. It's not all about you. You only started a topic that should be looked at from all angles and as a novice, I'm questioning what part of breeding does the bitch play into. You made it sound like it's the stud dog that has to carry the complete burden.

But it sounds like this is just what Diane did. She evaluated HER bitch, and decided that the stud dog she described is the dog that she needed to find that would work for her bitch.

As a breeder, that is what SHOULD be done when deciding to do a breeding. NOT breeding to the dog of the day, or NOT breeding to the dog that has 85 champions (with 2 working titled kids), because his puppies are selling for mega bucks.

The point is, 'you' evaluate your bitch, find her strengths and weaknesses and then search for a stud dog that would HOPEFULLY compliment her both genotypically and phenotypically.

It's NOT as easy as it sounds !!

[lblax]

Originally Posted by targonrotts

i have agility, flyball,conformation,obedience, rally, carting, therapy dog titles and they just turned 3 this week.

not dishing on you or your dogs i just want to cooment on the above statement. except for conformation any of the mentioned titles mean nothing pertaining to whether your dog can perform the work or be worthy to be called a rott. all the mentioned titles above simply prove that you have accomplished thing with your dog(which i applaud you for) but as far as working titles those mentioned above are titles any breed dog can attain so as far as breeding suitability it means nothing.

[Carol Burke]

Originally Posted by lblax

not dishing on you or your dogs i just want to cooment on the above statement. except for conformation any of the mentioned titles mean nothing pertaining to whether your dog can perform the work or be worthy to be called a rott. all the mentioned titles above simply prove that you have accomplished thing with your dog(which i applaud you for) but as far as working titles those mentioned above are titles any breed dog can attain so as far as breeding suitability it means nothing.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Rottweilers were originally bred to do carting and herding. Guarding was a by product because they workied for butchers and protected the money the butchers carried.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Carol Burke

Sorry but I have to disagree. Rottweilers were originally bred to do carting and herding. Guarding was a by product because they workied for butchers and protected the money the butchers carried.

i certainly didnt see herding listed in the titles the person was talking about and yes i would consider herding a viable title. as far as carting certainly in the roman times some rotts pulled butcher carts but so did many mastif type dogsa and anyother dog that they could hook to one, today wieght pully and such is not only detrimental in building muscle and making the dog out of proportion it better accomplished by many other breeds

[targonrotts]

i ventured in schutzhund years ago. i never got a title, as i was not consistent in training.
it was far from my house, expensive, and classes were held at a time that with traffic, i always showed up late. i did attain a BH, and did go to various night time temperament tests which were held on halloween night in the woods in central florida with all types of goons hidden in the woods coming out at you and your dog had to react.
sure, it was fun, and i understand many people take this to be the ultimate test....just as i know people who won't breed a dog who has not attained a CH yet.

but, a rottweiler in any of the events i mentioned before and succeeding in it, shows trainability,temperament and physical ability.it shows willingness to work and please.

like i previously said, i do with my dogs what i can do without going broke and while still enjoying ourselves.

everyone has an opinion on what is right. and they are entitled to it.

[targonrotts]

Originally Posted by lblax

not dishing on you or your dogs i just want to cooment on the above statement. except for conformation any of the mentioned titles mean nothing pertaining to whether your dog can perform the work or be worthy to be called a rott. all the mentioned titles above simply prove that you have accomplished thing with your dog(which i applaud you for) but as far as working titles those mentioned above are titles any breed dog can attain so as far as breeding suitability it means nothing.

don't worry, i won't get offended!
thanks for the applaud.
but, just wanted to say...not any dog can do it.
a over dog aggressive dog, would never be able to do flyball. hard enough to get on a team with a rott, imagine showing up with a dog your possible team mates would not want on their team.
as for agility, no drive, no work ethic-no going too far.

what i would say is, there are alot of show dogs that can probably be great at any of these events, but unfortunately, never given a chance. the owners would not even try it or show interest.

and in this day and age, a good stable temperament should be high on the list. i am not saying change the breed-it's a rottweiler-just make sure you have a well adjusted dog. i love it when i am at crowded places,therapy dogs,or community events and everyone comments on my dogs good behavior.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by frontierrots

I was told yesterday that a "world class" Sch dog would have an "edge" to it (which I read as sharp) and as such would NOT be safe in the situations I require a dog to be (described above) and thus no serious Sch person would have a recommendation for me because I do not want the right temperament

This is a gross generalization. My kids have grown up around SchH dogs, including two "world class" competitors, Aiko VD Silberhutte and Flash vom Burgthann - both competed and placed in multiple SchH trials nationally and internationally. Flash and Aiko literally lived downstairs from us and the boys played frisbee and tossed kongs for them. I know there are some competitive SchH dogs that have an 'edge', but the vast majority are stable, self assured dogs who do well in any situation. There are some conformation dogs that cannot be trusted around children and some ob dogs that cannot be trusted around children. There are just some rottweilers who have an edge - SchH has nothing to do with it.

Liz

[targonrotts]

Originally Posted by lblax

i certainly didnt see herding listed in the titles the person was talking about and yes i would consider herding a viable title. as far as carting certainly in the roman times some rotts pulled butcher carts but so did many mastif type dogsa and anyother dog that they could hook to one, today wieght pully and such is not only detrimental in building muscle and making the dog out of proportion it better accomplished by many other breeds

no. i do not have herding titles on these guys...yet.
i did go to a herding clinic with one of them(the male, dali) and he did a herding instinct test. but there are no local sheep in miami...the closest place is 3 hours away and it is not cheap to go and play with sheep.(plus gas prices will kill ya!).

you keep on mentioning that "things can be better accomplished by other breeds". sure that is true, but we have a versatile breed...and we can say it can accomplish just about anything(if it has it in him/her).

[targonrotts]

Originally Posted by Liz

This is a gross generalization. My kids have grown up around SchH dogs, including two "world class" competitors, Aiko VD Silberhutte and Flash vom Burgthann - both competed and placed in multiple SchH trials nationally and internationally. Flash and Aiko literally lived downstairs from us and the boys played frisbee and tossed kongs for them. I know there are some competitive SchH dogs that have an 'edge', but the vast majority are stable, self assured dogs who do well in any situation. There are some conformation dogs that cannot be trusted around children and some ob dogs that cannot be trusted around children. There are just some rottweilers who have an edge - SchH has nothing to do with it.

Liz

i totally agree with you. it is not the sport that affects the dog...it's the dog.

[targonrotts]

and now that we are off again in another direction...we should all go back to the original OP question and mention dogs names and why and see who are the up and coming.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by targonrotts

you keep on mentioning that "things can be better accomplished by other breeds". sure that is true, but we have a versatile breed...and we can say it can accomplish just about anything(if it has it in him/her).

while anything you do with your dog may be fun and chalanging it means nothing for breeding suitability.(remember my comments are not directed at you) there are far too many breeders on this site (and everywhere for that matter) that think titles on each side are not important or they consider only conformation along with agiliaty/obediance/fly ball/rally means there dog is worthy of breeding when in reality it means you have a rott that looks like a rott but yet does the work that any breed with the right trainer can accomplish. im not even against taking 2 healthy dogs and breeding them for pets or whatever but what i am against are the breeders who talk the talk and sell and advertize there animals as working prospects when all anyone has to do is look at the peds and know they are not.