We will be breeding them when they are old enough

[lgslgs]

Originally Posted by gaileena

But, this is just something we thought about doing, not sure that we will.

I'm glad you are thinking about it, instead of already being decided.

You will get a lot of good advice here about how to determine if a dog should be bred. There's good reasons that you'll be told about having full health certifications and titles before even considering if these two should be bred, and if it would be good for the breed to breed them to each other.

In some older threads on breeding there is one person who has posted some great stuff on the risks that having pups can pose to your dogs, and all of the things that can go wrong when dogs give birth.

I've got my own personal hot points on why you really should think very long and hard about breeding, and then probably decide against it.

Before you get decided on breeding, please get very familiar with your area rottweiler rescue and also keep track of the rottweiler listings on Petfinder.com. Every one of those dogs in need of a home were bred by people that thought they were bringing happy puppies into the world and that they'd go off and have good lives.

We live in a very rural area - only 18,000 people in our county. Each year 2000 - 2500 are euthanized at our county dog pound and that includes plenty of rottweilers. They've started posting their pictures on petfinder and trying hard to get them adopted, but the number of dogs euthanized each week dwarfs the number that go to homes. It just breaks my heart to see rotties with names and pictures and individual faces show up one week and be gone the next - knowing that most did not beat the odds.

Would you ever want the offspring of your family dogs to get shuffled off to a fate like that? Or to live it's entire life chained to a doghouse?

Even dogs of the best breeding can have their lives derailed and eventually end up in situations like this - but at least if they are bred by code of ethics breeders they stand a better chance of going to a decent home in the first place and have some protection in a contract that is written so they don't end up getting passed from home to home to pound to euthanasia. But even with that, rescues still end up trying to find homes for top quality rotts on a regular basis.


No matter how smart, loving, and pretty your dogs may be, or who their ancestors might be, without their own titles and health clearances it is likely that a number of their precious puppies and future grandpuppies will fall into the sort of situations you would never wish for them. Sure, some might end up in a happy home with a happy life, but do you really want to breed for a chance of that knowing that the odds are that most of their littermates won't be so lucky?


If you have a true desire to breed beautiful, smart rottweilers and send them to good homes - please read and take to heart all of the advice you are given about what it takes to breed in a way that improves the breed. The good puppy buyers aren't going to buy from people who are doing less than that (with the exception of those who don't know better and often suffer a lot of heartache until how they learn to find a decent breeder.)

As you think about it all, keep count of the rotties that go through your local rescues and that show up in petfinder in your area. It will be heartwrenching, but it is a very important part of your decision making process.


Lynda

[targonrotts]

the hardest part you will have especially if unexperienced is keeping the intact male away from the female when she is in full heat.
maybe in the first heat he may not be so whinny or destructive(i still would not trust him alone near her and for safety of unwanted pregnancy, keep them apart from first sign of heat until at least 3-4 weeks).
but by the time he is aware of what is going on, he may be loud, not eat, try to get out of crate/room/jump fence.

as to the older one, depends on dog's character. male may be obnoxious and older female corrects him if he tries it on her. younger female and older female may engage in rough play/fight/or do nothing. play it by ear and be ready to separate if need be.

as to the vet comment and akc comment:
akc papers any dogs that came from akc stock and have been registered. they don't look at quality. just paperwork properly filed. vets are well meaning, but specialize more in dog health, not breeding or showing(unless they do it themselves). i work with vets, i know. some well meaning think it is ok to breed in second heat, but in our breed, that is too young and not old enough to see what is going on with hips, elbows, heart,eyes,ect.
i am not dictating you or telling you what to do. just passing on experienced info.
breeding does take time, money,effort, and research to do it as best as you can. and good homes are hard to find.

good luck with your dogs and hope you stick around. you will get all sorts of replies, but with an open mind, you learn alot.even us older timers do!

[Nishasmom]

Originally Posted by targonrotts

maybe in the first heat he may not be so whinny or destructive(i still would not trust him alone near her and for safety of unwanted pregnancy, keep them apart from first sign of heat until at least 3-4 weeks).
but by the time he is aware of what is going on, he may be loud, not eat, try to get out of crate/room/jump fence.

He he...I had a friend who actually had to rent a hotel room for their male to stay in while their female was in heat. The husband stayed in the hotel with the dog for like 2 weeks ! Their intact male GSD was going CRAZY!!! Prepare yourself, its harder than it seems.

[AngelBunny]

Instead of calling your post, We will be breeding them when they are old enough, I wish you'd called your post We may be breeding them when they are old enough, if they are good enough.

We do not need untitled, unproven dogs w/o health clearances being bred. I say this as a Rottie owner since 1984 and one active in rescue for just shy of 10 years.

I urge you to read thru the postings here in Breeding to find out what real, bona fide, responsible breeders do. Then read the postings in Rescue to find out what everyone else does.

[rottcrazed]

When I keep a puppy that I have bred in order to carry on showing/working, I can certainly tell you that by 7 or 8 months of age there is NO WAY I will say forsure whether or not they will ever be bred, health clearances aside.

I currently have a 8.5 month old male who I am showing and working who was out of my last litter. He is lovely, but I have no idea what the 'final product' is going to look like .... so when people ask me if I am going to breed him, I always tell them that I don't know because there are too many things that can change in the next 18 months to know forsure.

I am preliming his hips and elbows in the next few months, more because he is training with low jumps right now than any other reason.

I love him dearly, but who knows what his stud career will be, if anything at all.

This is probably why a lot of people get up in arms when they read posts like this, myself included. For those of us who do breed, who do show, train, health and temperament test their dogs, posts like this are 'painful' to read, answer and repeat (because you know darn well someone else will come onto this site next week and say the same things .... it just does).

Breeding is a serious thing to do. You are bringing life into this world and in 8 weeks sending them out on their way with what you HOPE are responsible owners. It is just not an easy thing to do .... please make sure you are ABSOLUTELY well versed in everything from whelping, to contracts, screening people, etc... the list is too long to go into now. It is SOOO important and if you do truly care about this breed, you will want to do that before even considering breeding your dogs.

Kristi

[gaileena]

Originally Posted by AngelBunny

Instead of calling your post, We will be breeding them when they are old enough, I wish you'd called your post We may be breeding them when they are old enough, if they are good enough.

We do not need untitled, unproven dogs w/o health clearances being bred. I say this as a Rottie owner since 1984 and one active in rescue for just shy of 10 years.

I urge you to read thru the postings here in Breeding to find out what real, bona fide, responsible breeders do. Then read the postings in Rescue to find out what everyone else does.

I didn't title it we will be breeding them when they are old enough, I just simply asked for advice on a female coming in season with a spay female in the household, and an unaltered male, for the safety of my rotties. I think this has been blown out of sorts here, I am not sure if we will breed, or not, that was not the reason I even gave a quote. Some times I think people should not be so apt to judge others, and read more into a question, than necessary. Nice replies to the questions asked would be appreciated alot more, than criticism. I won't be asking any more questions on this forum.

[gaileena]

Originally Posted by rottcrazed

When I keep a puppy that I have bred in order to carry on showing/working, I can certainly tell you that by 7 or 8 months of age there is NO WAY I will say forsure whether or not they will ever be bred, health clearances aside.

I currently have a 8.5 month old male who I am showing and working who was out of my last litter. He is lovely, but I have no idea what the 'final product' is going to look like .... so when people ask me if I am going to breed him, I always tell them that I don't know because there are too many things that can change in the next 18 months to know forsure.

I am preliming his hips and elbows in the next few months, more because he is training with low jumps right now than any other reason.

I love him dearly, but who knows what his stud career will be, if anything at all.

This is probably why a lot of people get up in arms when they read posts like this, myself included. For those of us who do breed, who do show, train, health and temperament test their dogs, posts like this are 'painful' to read, answer and repeat (because you know darn well someone else will come onto this site next week and say the same things .... it just does).

Breeding is a serious thing to do. You are bringing life into this world and in 8 weeks sending them out on their way with what you HOPE are responsible owners. It is just not an easy thing to do .... please make sure you are ABSOLUTELY well versed in everything from whelping, to contracts, screening people, etc... the list is too long to go into now. It is SOOO important and if you do truly care about this breed, you will want to do that before even considering breeding your dogs.

Kristi

I appreciate that, and I feel the same way, and I know what you are saying my 6 yr old female we rescued, from an abusive situation. So, I know how heart wrenching it is to see abused animals, we are not a definite on breeding, and I agree with you on not knowing what another 18 months will bring. I feel though there are more people on here to criticize than to honestly give good advice on the do and don't with breeding. I guess my biggest concern as I have said before was not a breeding question, it was how the female who will be coming in season will react with my 6 yr old female who is altered? I didn't even ask about breeding, and I have got more critics responses on breeding, than I have on the real question that I asked.

[fbkeays]

Somewhere along the line the title of the thread got changed to, "We will be breeding them when they are old enough".
The problem is that you lead off with your very first post with, "

I have 3 rotties 6 yr. female (spay) 8 month male unaltered, 7 month female unaltered, we will be breeding them when they are old enough, but my question is,...."

How can you expect people to ignore your first sentence??? You were the one that opened the subject of breeding your intact dogs.
Unfortunately for the question you were trying to get the answer for, there is no way for anyone to give you an answer. It all depends on the dynamics of your situation. None of us are there so it is just speculation. There could be problems, there could be no problems.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by gaileena

I didn't title it we will be breeding them when they are old enough, I just simply asked for advice on a female coming in season with a spay female in the household, and an unaltered male, for the safety of my rotties. I think this has been blown out of sorts here, I am not sure if we will breed, or not, that was not the reason I even gave a quote. Some times I think people should not be so apt to judge others, and read more into a question, than necessary. Nice replies to the questions asked would be appreciated alot more, than criticism. I won't be asking any more questions on this forum.

Well, it's the title of your post. isn't it?

So you think we should not be so apt to judge others, do you?

Take a leaf from your own book--don't judge us.

Many of us have decades of experience with the breed. As a rescurer I've seen more than you can imagine and what I've seen is the direct result of wanna be BYBs who think the extent of a breeding program is having two intact dogs. In my close to 10 years of rescue involvement, the number of dogs who've ended up in rescue coming from COE breeders can be counted on the fingers of one hand. All the other thousands of dogs came from BYBs and millers.

You are one of the many newbies who come here seeking advice and when they get what is clearly not what they wanted to hear, leave in a huff, their feelings hurt.

Too bad for you. Your knowledge about the breed will now come to a standstill when you clearly have so much to learn.

It's your loss that you won't be asking any more questions on RDN. Most of the people here have forgotten more about Rotties than you'll learn.

[observer]

Originally Posted by gaileena

Yes, we have already talked with our vet about getting all health certifications before breeding, and they are both registered akc, along with their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents, we have all their background. But, this is just something we thought about doing, not sure that we will. Just wanted to get some good advice from people who have done this before, and their thoughts. Some of the replies I have received have been good, and some not so kind, don't know if I will post again. Thank you for your response. I appreciate your help.

Your inexperience is showing here. The fact that both are registered (which by definition means their ancestors also had AKC papers) means practically nothing. It means that AKC says, based on all the info available to them, that they are purebred. It means NOTHING about healthy hips, elbows, hearts, eyes... all sorts of genetic defects that can be heartbreaking for the owners of any potential pups. Getting certifications does not mean your vet says, yes they are healthy you can breed them. It doesn't say anything about proving these dogs in the conformation ring or in some sort of working discipline, to test them against the breed standard and see if breeding them improves the breed.

You have a lot to learn. A lot of it you can learn right here. Keep reading!

[annamack]

Originally Posted by gaileena

I am new to this whole new world, and I guess I am kind of offended to your response. I asked for professional suggestions, not criticism.

Do not get offended if you love your dogs..... These folks here just want the best for our breed. I have been were you are and at the end of the bashing stick but dont be offended just read take the info you are given and really consider having both the intact dogs fixed please...

go back and read threw the breeding forum and read the stickys best info i can give ya

[Valentine]

I'm sorry hun, but with breeding comes the occasional criticism, and if you cannot handle that, then you cannot handle what's coming after you breed your dogs.

[TrinaJ]

People only criticisize because they have seen what happens to these dogs. The people who criticize do a LOT of work with resuce's and the number of dogs that get pts is just horrific. They are just making you aware that its not just a bed of roses.

I have a 6 month of bitch. Will i be breeding her? I dont know, she is too young for me to even consider it. Only after she is 2 years old and has had her xrays and eye test will i even know if she meets the criteria 'medically' for me to go the next step. Finding a mate for her that has also passed all of his tests and that will compliment her attributes and will make up for the things that she may be lacking (I wont know this until she is at least 18 months old). Then it will depend on if i have her titled, front and end, same with the dog. After all those things have been taken into consideration then I will take her back to my breeder and she will make the final decision on who she is mated with and she will be the one to do all of this. I will only EVER breed with my dog to better the breed.

In all honesty I probably wont breed with her, i am not a breeder and breeding dogs is not a game, nor is it a business in which to make money. The reason COE breeders breed is to better the breed.

Now you tell me....what attributes do YOUR dogs have that will better this breed? But i forgot, you cant answer that question, your dogs are too young so its way too early to tell. Once you have gotten their clearences, had their scores registered with the OFA, fingured out what attributes your male has that will enhance the female or visa versa, had them judged by someone who is qualified to say that they they conform to the standard THEN come back and tell us you will be breeding them and WHY.

I may sound bitchy and harsh but that's life. I am currently dealing with a relative who thinks breeding his dog would be good for his hip pocket so i may be a little cynical.

Trina

[WendiS]

Gaileena, you have nice dogs and that's great, but it's not a reason to breed. Having a nice car doesn't mean your qualified to drive Indy. Enjoy your dogs, love your dogs but breeding good quality, sound dogs is something best left to qualified breeders.
I have a great dog from champion lines, his breeder did all her homework, knows the lines on both sides and can quote the history of every dog she's ever bred to. She's done all that and I can rest assured that I have a good dog from a responsible breeder. His siblings have gone on to be champions, therapy dogs and house pets but that doesn't mean he's worth breeding. I haven't shown him and there is nothing that makes him better than average (except that like my children he's the most wonderful, beautiful, smartest dog ever!...but of course that the mom/owner in me talking). Breeding is and should be a huge responsibility with many things to consider, the least of which should be is the dog pretty/nice/stable temperament. These are just basic attributes not a justification to make more. Too many dogs go to shelters, are abused etc...watch Animal Planet for just one day and you get an idea of what can happen when an indiscriminate buyer gets a dog from an indiscriminate breeder. Just because your dog has a uterus doesn't mean you have to use it.

And mac 2 [

"you must have a death wish asking that question on here i suggest you read the threads on breeding just a word of warning"

Gaileena might not realize it but brilliant observation
Wendi

[CanineCoach]

Please listen carefully to this sad story. Though these are not rottweilers (Huskies) a client I work with got 2 pups from the same litter. (Why???) Anyway, these are now almost a year old and have BOTH been diagosed with detached retinas in one eye each and cataracts in both eyes. Cost of surgery for both dogs - $10,000. Owner calls the "breeder" and breeder says none of her pups have ever had eye problems (of course, no certs, either), but she takes responsibility for her pups and WILL REFUND WHAT THEY PAID FOR THE PUPS. I don't know what this amount is, but do know that it is no where close to $10,000.

The point being, responsible breeders would say, I will take those pups back. That leaves the breeder with the decision about spending $10,000 for surgery or having the pups put down.

Once you arrange for puppies to be brought into this world they remain your responsibility. Think far, far down the road -- not easy, I know -- do you really want to do this?