Best age for puppy conformation evaluation

[Teresa]

Hello all,

For others out there that have struggled with which puppy to keep from a litter...what age do you like to do your evaluations? Mine have always been done between 7 and 8 weeks, usually closer to 8.

My current litter I needed to have them done a little on the early side, as my friend Ann was traveling to England for three weeks (she is a wonderful person to get an experienced impartial opinion from). They were 7 weeks and a day.

I've seen MANY significant changes to structure or proportion between the 6-10 week ages over the years. Some stay pretty constant, some have nearly become different puppies in a week.

This litter is for me - and I have three girls...all have something I want, all have a detractor or two (isn't that always true?). I'm not sending anyone home until after 8 weeks so I can grow them out and get them up on the table one more time, but the folks waiting for the girls want different things, and may insist on only one of the girls as the right one for them. Sometimes sorting out the right homes is more work than all the sleepless nights and cleaning!

Wanted to know if any of you long time breeders (especially those that are on their 3rd or 4th generation) have been surprised by a pup that morphed after the eval, and what items you think are unlikely to change. I've been keeping notes and pictures, studying this for a few years, but mostly on my own kids...

I've got one gal I like a lot - but she is a very heavy pup - great temperament, lovely strong head, nice topline, etc. BUT...her rear assembly has completely changed each week. I've had a couple of puppies (born back in 99) that were straight in the rear at 8 weeks, and ended up with quite a bit of angle as adults. Anyone else have this experience? Or other thoughts on evals (age, constants, etc)???

TIA
Teresa

[spidey]

Pat Hastings says a week either side of 8 weeks, that's it, and that 8 weeks exactly is ideal. Too early and you're not seeing true structure, later than that and the pup will have been walking long enough to build muscle to compensate for weaknesses, so you won't see them as easily. So 7-9 weeks.

[rottnluv]

My understanding of the Pat Hastings method - Puppy Puzzle - is that structure evals should be done at 8 weeks +/- 3 days, but that it was vital to stay within that window.

Myself, I couldn't pick a pup based on evals. done at 7 weeks of age. That may be mentoring, I don't know, but I've looked at litters at 7 weeks and didn't particular like what I saw.....but they looked better earlier and looked better again later.

I'd hang onto them as long as you need to until you are 100% confident in your choice. I wouldn't let puppy people sway or choice or make you choose hastily. You did this breeding for you, as you said. Take your time and choose the right puppy for you.

Good luck!

[Teresa]

I have Ann Mauer come and do mine - she has been evaluating Rottie litters for 30 some years. From two VERY long time breeders, I got quite negative reviews on the Pat Hastings evals - they did not like some of her methods, and she was apparently difficult to work with (and expensive). One breeder was quite suprised when she said "I don't do heads". Not that we are completely a head breed, but it certainly does matter!

I've had many a long discussion with Ann about evals and what you can peg at ~8 weeks, and what you have to wait and see...she's helped me with every litter since the A kids, and I've got back and compared eval to adult in dozens.

I've got eval pictures at 7 weeks plus 2 days (had to be done early due to schedules), and the last set of photos on the table from Wed - at 8 weeks plus 5 days. I do see some changes - I'm including the link for discussion purposes...kinda disappointed to only get two replies. I am thinking that picking the best puppy is one of the most critical decisions (besides picking the stud dog) that you make as a breeder, at least if you are in this for the long term.



Thoughts and discussion welcome :)
Teresa