HELP!!! How do I stop a friend from using her male for stud

[Kandi]

A friend of mine owns a Balou grandson. She thinks he is gold. I don't mean that she is out to make money off of him, just that he is perfect, can do no wrong. He is 2+ and has had hips, elbows, eyes and thyroid done. And, she is only looking to use him once at this point. Problem is the bitch. She was approached by a couple that were looking for a stud dog and they really like the looks of her boy.
I guess he is okay...I would never want him as stud for my bitch, but....to each his own. She does rally with him, and will eventually be doing obedience. She is dabbling in the show ring, only when the competition is not stiff----not many handlers present or show really close to home. He has some attitude, which what dog does not, but...growling at mommy should be a no no. And, it is, but she does not bust hard on him. He is a spoiled brat and gets whatever his heart desires. She is really great when it comes to corrections.
Back to the bitch... I have seen pictures and will meet her Thursday evening, when my friend gets her first look at the bitch. AKC papers is all she has, nothing more. No recognizable names in the pedigree, nothing. Just a BYB product.
My friends opinion is let him breed the bitch, she will get to see how he behaves in a tie.... If he chews up the bitch at least it is not someone's really expensive show girl. Though she is determined not to breed with the bitch this heat cycle, because she wants to get her Rally Excellent first and is afraid it will take his focus off of the job at hand, she is really considering this.

I have spent the last week trying to talk her out of it. She cam e to me,knowing this whole thing goes against all I stand for. If I breed, I will be a COE, and have gone to the extreme of spaying a perfectly healthy, beautiful bitch because she was missing 2 teeth. I went against friends, the breeder, countless handlers, many people when I spayed her for only 2 teeth. My point in saying that is, she knows how I feel, she know what I stand for, but I can not seem to get it across to her that it is not right, what she is considering. After all, not everyone can afford show quality puppies. Why not produce really good pets...
The bitch is not ever prelimed or anything. I have tried to get her to convince the bitch's owner to at least do that, to talk the owner into limited registrations. She will work on the limited thing for every puppy but the one that the breeder wants to keep.

Problem is what can I do? How do I stop this from ever happening? I am not a fan of the male, a little too much attitude for me. But, there are a couple of handlers that like him.
Anyway, please help. Need some advise.

[harleychik66]

Some people just lack the common sense that god gave a gnat! Sounds like your friend is a selfish person who needs to be treated to a gift of leather goods. A boot in the a$$ and a belt across the head .

Seriously though if she doesn't want to listen to reason is there any way that you could get in touch with the owners of the bitch. Maybe you could talk some sense into them.

Have you showed her how many rotties are available on petfinder? Or have her call the closest rottie rescue and talk to someone there about how many "nice" dogs they get. How would she feel if she knew that there was the possibility of some of these pups winding up in these places. Have her come onto RDN and read all the stickies and postings about breedings.

All that being said, you can lead a horse to water..... You are doing everything you can, some people you just can't get through to. It sounds as if she is going to do what she wants no matter what.

Good luck. Let us know what she decides.

[Kandi]

The owner of the bitch lives and hour + away from here. I have no idea who she is or how to reach her, but from what my friend has told me, whether it is her male or not, the woman is going to breed the bitch. From what I understand, the bitch is 2 1/2 years old and had a litter a year ago. So, you know that they are not COE and have no interest in being one.
From what my friend has told me, if the bitch is really nice, she will probably do it. Mind you she loves the looks of my girls and was really pushing me for Kaylee before I spayed her. Was one of the one trying to convince me not to spay her. After all, she would make beautiful pet puppies. So, my guess would be, if the bitch has a really nice head, and the shot muzzle and stop that mine has, its a go. Though I also think she will be willing to compromise on some of that. The whole thing scares me and upset me beyond belief. If he were my male, he would be fixed. Nothing about him is appealing, and the attitude is a really big turn off. I just wish some people would learn to listen and reason with themselves, and not move on feelings. I guess I can hope and pray that the picture is very deceiving and that the bitch is as ugly as all get out.
Her one big hold-up seems to be putting her male's name on the paperwork for the puppies, especially if there are no health clearances done on the bitch. Maybe that will be the sticking point. I just hope common sense prevails.

[targonrotts]

all you can do is try to educate both.
the stud owner-if the bitch and dog breeding produces mediocre pups, people will judge her stud on that. if the bitch gets hurt or lost in his/her care, they can be liable. if they decide to breed with no OFA done,the studs reputation can be at stake. if the dog has iffy temperament, breeding can make it worse and bring about other problems.
the bitch owner-don't breed unless at least OFA and certs done. responsible for pups produced and genetical problems they might have.finding good homes.encounter breeding problems/whelping problems.can lose bitch giving birth.responsibilities of raising/socializing pups.

that's as much as you can do....you can't really force someone to do/or not do anything.

hope they get some common sense.

[poohbearsmom]

You can attempt to educate, but people will do what they want.

[Terri Lambert]

You did not mention anything about him even having a heart clearance as heart diseases is a problem in our breed. Please advise her not to breed him especially since he is not a champion. We breed to betterment the breed not to just make puppies. And yes you did the right thing in spaying your bitch with the 2 missing teeth.

[Ayoka]

All I can say is educate, and if this person is a member of any kennell/breed clubs, maybe let them know if they have rules about breeding practices.

It seems like there are so many puppymills in Penn. that the world doesnt need ANOTHER one!

[chcdrnht]

If this were my friend, I would strongly advise her not to do this breeding. My self, being an owner of a stud dog that has all of his health clearances, his championship and working titles including obedience, rally and herding I would not breed to this bitch. I not only have my stud dog’s reputation to protect but also mine. The first red flag your friend should acknowledge is that the bitch has no health clearances and the second red flag is that she was breed before she was 2 years old. Having said that, I don’t think the owner(s) of bitch are the type of people I would want to get involved with. There is nothing to stop them from saying that your friend’s stud dog is the sire of the puppies even if she doesn’t sign the AKC registration papers and your friends reputation holds no merit of being an owner of a stud dog.

[Valentine]

From my understanding, this bitch is just a "practice bitch" for the stud (which I find pretty stupid). So why not just tell the stud owner about Brucellosis and the fact that the bitch could have it. Also, if the stud "chews up" this bitch in a tie, then the stud owner is still at fault. Not to mention, the stud's reputation is at stake here. I, for one, wouldn't want to breed a bitch to this stud for many reasons, including this!

Just educate, that's the best you can do, if she carries out the breeding...well too bad for her hey? Can't say you didn't tell her so hahha

[Kandi]

It is my understanding that she is not going to do this breeding, finally. She originally told them not this heat cycle because she wants to keep her male focused on rally and getting his advanced title. The bitch's owner seemed okay with that, though it is not what they wanted, and they also had an alternative male lined up, so are proceeding to breed her anyway. We both tried to educate them as to health clearances and such. They plan on taking their girl for her hips and elbows, if nothing more. As for the friends male, no he has not had his heart cleared yet. She plans on doing that when she finally decides to breed to a good bitch.
I can only hope that myself and her one other friend that is a rescue, were able to convince her completely to avoid this bitch. I know she is not interested right now, and doesn't think she will be in the future, but the question remains, if another good looking bitch comes along, will she say no if it does not have clearances. Only God knows the answer to that one. I personally hope she reconsiders the whole breeding thing, but, that's her choice, her stud's reputation, her problem. And, no, she does not believe in being a member of any clubs. Thinks I am crazy for doing so.