Questions about breeding

[TrinaJ]

I have a few questions I would like to ask the breeders...

When i was at the show the other day I was speaking to my breeder and mentioned to her that i was told that her dogs always have beautiful colours - they have a lovely rich mahogony colour. She said (just before she entered the ring) that her colours may be getting too dark and that she will have to tone them down.

How does one go about toning down the colours? Do you breed your bitch with a Sire whos colouring is lighter?

I didn't get a chance to ask her because she was entering the ring and when she got out we were all so busy getting ready for the next phase that i forgot to ask her.

When you breed your bitch what specifically do you look for in a Sire (apart from health certs, working titles and CH titles)? Do you want the Sire to be similar to the bitches Sire, do you choose him because he compliments her (ie colours face etc) ?

I am only asking out of curiosity as I find it interesting.

[lblax]

anytime you want to change things in your lines wheather it be looks health or working ability you have to look beyond the stud or bitch and look at generations of offsring and the offsprings of dogs behind the sire and dam to see what the dogs are actually throwing. so if you research and find that a certain line of dogs meets all you criteria plus has a tendancie for black and tan instead of deep mahogany then you may get all /none or a few pups that are lighter.. why does she want to change???in my opinion as long as the markings are correct and there is distinct markings the deep mahogeny is by far the best color.

[targonrotts]

i look for a male that has strong points where i might have a weak point, without giving up on my strong points.
example... my bitches have level strong toplines, but i can use a bit more bone. i will find a male with strong topline and have bone to offer(preferrably if i have seen get out of him and pass what i need).

as to color, or anything for that matter, is a crap shoot. you do your best and anything can happen.
when i bred hailey to shaka, i had many people say i was going to have very dark dogs, because both are dark. well, the 2 kids, dali and gala have rich and beautiful markings. i got more bone on my dogs, kept a straight topline and great movement. i was lucky. oh, and great temperament.

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by lblax

anytime you want to change things in your lines wheather it be looks health or working ability you have to look beyond the stud or bitch and look at generations of offsring and the offsprings of dogs behind the sire and dam to see what the dogs are actually throwing. so if you research and find that a certain line of dogs meets all you criteria plus has a tendancie for black and tan instead of deep mahogany then you may get all /none or a few pups that are lighter.. why does she want to change???in my opinion as long as the markings are correct and there is distinct markings the deep mahogeny is by far the best color.

All the markings are definately correct and distinct. I agree the deep mahogany is beautiful (my Jett is a lovely rich mahogany), I prefer it to the lighten tan colour.

I really didn't get to ask her why (due to the time) but i think she is afraid that they maybe getting too dark - perhaps her last litter was a lot darker than the previous, i am not sure. When i speak to her next i will find out.

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by targonrotts

i look for a male that has strong points where i might have a weak point, without giving up on my strong points.
example... my bitches have level strong toplines, but i can use a bit more bone. i will find a male with strong topline and have bone to offer(preferrably if i have seen get out of him and pass what i need).

as to color, or anything for that matter, is a crap shoot. you do your best and anything can happen.
when i bred hailey to shaka, i had many people say i was going to have very dark dogs, because both are dark. well, the 2 kids, dali and gala have rich and beautiful markings. i got more bone on my dogs, kept a straight topline and great movement. i was lucky. oh, and great temperament.

Wow i knew that there was a lot involved in the selection process but i didn't realise actually HOW much. I had not idea about the bone, but i guess it makes sense. So you are saying that you would find a dog with the same pro's your bitch has but at the same time maximising on the males other strenghts (that may be a little weaker in the bitch).

And for those who are thinking....NO i am definately NOT thinking of breeding Jett, she's just a baby. I just find the whole process interesting and wanted to know more about it.

[targonrotts]

exactly. you try to breed to better the breed. you improve on your weaknesses without, or at least trying, not to lose your strenghts.

don't worry. it is good to ask questions!

Iblax had good points too.

[TrinaJ]

Yes Iblax did also. You both had very good points.

[FilosFolks]

Hi all,

Just skimming through and curiously wondering, if a certain dam's litter's markings can darken with age and number of litters?? Or if anyone has noticed such a trend??

Ignorance inspires questions ,

Ailee

[targonrotts]

if you mean, can a puppy's color darken with age? yes, i have seen pups born on the light side and turn up darker as they mature thru puppy hood. but usually the rich mahoganys are already born pretty dark.
if you mean if a particular bitch, when older, bred, can she have darker pups-well, it depends on who she was bred to. if it was a darker male with dominant color-yes. but i do not beleive just because a female is older she produces darker dogs. it goes back to who she was bred to and the colors of the parents and grandparents and so forth.

no question is ignorant. not asking is.

[mikimm]

Have you breeders noticed an association with color and any temperament or drive trait? I saw a show about how the Russians bred foxes for calmness, juvenile behavior (playful and inquisitive), and submissiveness. When they achieved the temperament they were looking for, they ended up with multicolored foxes. I've also heard that in mixed breed dogs, their temperament and behavior more closely resembles the breed they more closely look like. For example a beagle bred with a poodle (god forbid) has pups. Some look more beagley, and some look more poodley. If this theory holds, then the beagley ones would act more like a beagle and the poodley ones would act more like poodles.

So, I was wondering if changes in temperament or behavior characteristics (maybe subtle ones) might be associated with darker mahogany or lighter tan patches on a rottie.

To be honest, I haven't noticed anything like this in the ones we've had over the years, or even the ones we've met. But maybe the breeders have?

[FilosFolks]

Originally Posted by targonrotts

if you mean, can a puppy's color darken with age? yes, i have seen pups born on the light side and turn up darker as they mature thru puppy hood. but usually the rich mahoganys are already born pretty dark.
if you mean if a particular bitch, when older, bred, can she have darker pups-well, it depends on who she was bred to. if it was a darker male with dominant color-yes. but i do not beleive just because a female is older she produces darker dogs. it goes back to who she was bred to and the colors of the parents and grandparents and so forth.

no question is ignorant. not asking is.

By ignorant, I just meant "not knowing". I am only familiar with breeding horses for color, and even with stock that typically "throws" color it's a crapshoot.

I was curious if the coloring/markings/sharpness deteriorated over the number of litters "thrown" (assuming the Dam is bred to a similarly colored male).

One litter a little darker or blurier marked than the previous? And of course it depends on what the sire looks like but assuming both are complimentary...

Ailee