Starting to breed...

[JagerLiLi]

I have a male and a female both less than 6mths and would like to breed in the future. I know the risk in breeding, and before I breed I will have them both checked out health wise. I refuse to breed a genetically ill dog. What all genetic health issues should I screen for? My intentions really are good ones! Im not looking to ONLY provide good puppies to families, but vise versa! I want to provide good homes for my puppies! I will strictly sell my pups to well enviromented homes. I will be comfotorable in keeping them if I can't find a home. I am not trying to make a killin off of my puppies, nor doing it as a hobby! If health is all good, I want my male and female to have a litter. I make enough money to support myself and another family, so the money for each puppy is not intended to support me or another hobby. My intentions with the money, is to put up in a seperate account and save it for a doggy emergency. If something happens to any of my dogs, the money will go for that. I will definately skip the first heat and maybe the second. Should i skip the second, or will she be fully developed? I have heard 2 days, 24hrs, 2 weeks so when should I get the tails docked and claws removed? Should I change food's when she is carrying a litter? And should I change food's when she has her litter? These are all questions I want to know way before, and not just before. I appreciate your responses in advance!

[Shelby427]

You need to prove that your dogs are worthy of being bred. You need to show them, title them and have all health certifications done (hips/elbows/eyes/heart). I think you should leave the breeding to the professionals. Where did you get your puppies? I question it because a COE breeder would never sell two puppies to the same household at one time.

You can't get hips and elbows OFA'd until at least two years of age. Ergo you cannot breed either dog until after 24 months and all health certs come back fine.

I really hope you listen to this advice and stop thinking about breeding them. For starters, you will have to go to shows, find a reputable breeder and have them be your mentor. Just because you have two dogs that have reproductive organs does not mean you should breed them!

Please, spay and neuter your pets.

[alice's mommy]

Please do a search on BYB's. I feel safe in assuming you did NOT get your dogs from a reputable breeder. Please reconsider this.

[leanershnitzel]

You absolutely need to read the stickies at the top of the breeding forum. If you still feel you want to breed your dogs after that.....get your flame suit on.

[Shelby427]

Here are a few problems you may encounter if you decide to breed your "nice pets"

What if during the breeding...

The stud dog you have chosen is carrying a venereal disease and gives it to your female. She not only doesn't conceive, but you have to pay the vet bills to get her infection cleared up and she is now sterile.

The stud dog you decided to breed your darling to is not experienced. Once the two dogs are joined tightly in a tie, he decides to chase the neighbors cat out of his yard. He bolts for the cat ripping his --male genitalia-- loose and causing your bitch to hemorrhage from within.

Your modest girl decides she doesn't want the attentions of this gigolo mutt chosen for her without her consent. She snaps at him catching her tooth on his loose cheek and rips it open sending blood everywhere. He retaliates by sinking his teeth into her left eye.

You leave your dog with the stud owner because the breeding is not going very swiftly. In fact, it's been three hours and nothing is happening. The stud owners leave the two dogs alone in the back yard. The dogs get out through a tiny hole in the fence and a truck hits your female.

You pay the $250-$1,000 stud fee up front figuring you will make that and more back when the pups sell. The breeder guarantees the stud service to work or you can come back again. After 2 months you discover it didn't work and now must wait another 4 months to try again. Of course it doesn't work again, so in another 4 months you take your dog to another male and risk loosing another stud fee.

You get her bred. Bring her home. She bothers you so you let her outside (she is still in heat and still receptive to males). You here a commotion outside there is your girl tied up with the neighborhood mutt. When she whelps, there will need to be DNA tests done on the pups.

You get her bred. Bring her home. Let her out (she is still in heat and receptive to other males), but you do not see the neighborhood mutt breed her. The pups are born but look odd. You call the stud owner he suggests DNA testing (at your expense). You have a litter of mutts! What do you do about the ones you have already sold?

Or knowing she tied with the neighborhood mutt you decide to terminate the pregnancy and try again being more careful next time. But a few weeks later your female is very sick because you had her given a mis-mate shot creating a hormonal imbalance causing a uterine infection and now she has Pyometra and needs a complete hysterectomy. All plan of a litter are gone and your female's life is now in danger if she does not have the operation.

What if during the birth...

The puppies are too large for the females hips. She never goes into labor, the puppies die and she becomes infected by the decaying bodies.

The puppies are coming breach and they drown in their own sacks before they can be born.

The first puppy is large and breach. When it starts coming your female starts screaming, and before you can stop her she reaches around, grabs the puppy in her teeth and yanks it out killing it instantly.

A puppy gets stuck. Neither your female nor you can get it out. You have to race her to the vet. The vet can't get it out either. She has to have an emergency caesarian section of course it is 3:00 am Christmas day.

A puppy is coming out breach and dry (the water sack that protects them has burst). It gets stuck. Mom tries to help it out by clamping her teeth over one of the back legs. The head and shoulders are firmly caught. Mom pulls on the leg, hard, peeling the flesh from the leg and leaving a wiggling stump of bone.

A dead puppy gets stuck in the birth canal, but your female is well into hard labor. She contracts so hard trying to give birth that her uterus ruptures and she bleeds to death on the way to the vet.

What if directly after birth...

The mother has no idea what to do with a puppy and she drops them out and walks away, leaving them in the sack to drown.

The mother takes one look at the puppies, decides they are disgusting droppings and tries to smother them in anything she can find to bury them in.

The mother gets too enthusiastic in her removal of the placenta and umbilical cord, and rips the cord out leaving a gushing hole pulsing blood all over you as you try in vain to stop the bleeding.

Or, she pulls on the cords so hard she disembowels the puppies as they are born and you have a box full of tiny; kicking babies with a tangle of guts the size of a walnut hanging from their stomachs. Of course all the babies must be put to sleep.

What if because of some hormone deficiency she turns vicious allowing no one near her or the babies, who she refuses to nurse, or you have to interfere with.

You notice something protruding from her --female genitalia-- when you let her out to pee; you take her to the vet to discover a prolapsed uterus, which needs to be removed.

What if when you think you are in the clear...

One or more of the puppies inhaled fluid during birth, pneumonia develops and death occurs within 36 hours.

What if the mother's milk goes bad. You lose three of your four puppies before you discover what is wrong. You end up bottle feeding the remaining pup every two hours, day and night. After three days the puppy fades from infection and dies.

The puppies develop fading puppy syndrome you lose two. You bottle-feeding or tube feeding the last remaining baby. It begins to choke and despite your efforts to clear the airway, the pup stiffens and dies in your hands.

Your female develops mastitis and her breast ruptures.

Your female develops a uterine infection from a retained placenta. Her temperature soars to 105. You race her to the vet, he determines she must be spayed. He dose the spay in an attempt to save her life, you pay the hundreds of dollars bill. The infection has gone into her blood stream. The infected milk kills all the puppies and the bitch succumbs a day later.

All the puppies are fine, but following the birth the female develops a hormone imbalance. She becomes a fear biter and anytime anyone tries to touch her she viscously attacks them.

Mom and pups seem fine, the puppies are four weeks old and are at their cutest. But one day, one of the puppies disappears. You search everywhere but you can't find it. A few days later another puppy is gone. And another. You can't figure how on earth the puppies are getting out of their safe 4' x 4' puppy pen. Finally there is only one puppy left. The next morning you find the mother chomping contentedly on what is left of the last murdered puppy.

What if the new homes are not so happy?...

You give a puppy to a friend. Their fence blows down so they tie the puppy outside while they go to work. A roving dog comes along and kills the puppy. Your friend calls you up to tell you about the poor little puppy and asks when you are having more puppies.

You sell a puppy to an acquaintance. The next time you see them you ask how the puppy is doing. They tell you that it soiled their new carpet so they took it to the pound.

You sell a puppy to a friend (you give them a good price and payments). They make a couple of tiny payments. Six months later they move to an apartment. They ask you to take it back. You take it back and of course the payments stop. The dog they returned is so shy, and ill-mannered from lack of socialization and training it takes you a year of work providing socializing and training to be able to give it away.

You sell a puppy to a wonderful home. They love her like one of the family. At a vet check done by their vet it is determined that the puppy has a heart murmur (your vet found nothing when he checked the puppy before it was sold). They love their puppy and want the best for her. They have an expensive surgery done. The puppy is fine. They sue you for the medical costs. They win, because you did not have a contract stipulating conditions of guarantee and so, as the breeder, you are responsible for the puppy's genetic health.

You give a puppy to your mother. She is thrilled. Two years later the puppy starts developing problems. It begins to develop odd symptoms and is suffering. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of tests later it is finally discovered that the dog is suffering from a terminal condition that was inherited. possibly from your female since you know nothing about her family lines.

One loving home decides your puppy is untrainable, destructive and wants to return the pup and get a full refund, which you have spent on your vet bills.

One loving couple calls you and is very upset because their pup has crippling hip displasia and want to know what you are going to do about it. You have spayed your female so a replacement is out of the question, looks like another refund.

The Sale...

You put your ad in the local paper for your pups at the usual price and get only 2 responses and no sales. You cut the pup's price in half and broaden your advertising to 3 other newspapers in which the advertising totals $120.00 a week.

You get a few more puppy inquiries from people who ask all about health testing you did before breeding and if the pups are registered. You tell them your dogs are healthy and it was enough and that you could get the papers. The callers politely thank you and hang up.

The pups are now 4 months old and getting bigger, eating alot and their barking is really beginning to annoy the neighbors, who call the police who inform you of the $150.00 noise bylaw.

Your neighbors also call the humane society which comes out to inspect the care of your dogs. You pass inspection but end up feeling stressed and harassed.

You finally decide to give the rest of the litter away but still have to pay the $1200 advertising bill and the $600 vet bill.

So you gotta ask yourself...do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, "breeder?"
~Author Unknown~

[GypsysMom]

Please read all the breeding information on here, you say if you cant find good home to your standards for your pups you will keep them, well what if your bitch has 10-12 puppies? you are financially and emotionally ready to keep that many puppies that will turn into dogs? My Female is beautiful but she is by no means a breeding bitch, that is why she was spayed, she has a few faults such as her ears are not the size they are supposed to be, her temperment isnt the best etc.. what about the breeder you got the dogs from? what have they said about you breeding in the future? do the parents have any titles or anything?

[Nishasmom]

If you want to provide good dogs to good families (and vice versa) maybe you should volunteer at a shelter, or adoption agency.

Over 2.4 million pets die in shelters every year (just b/c they don't have homes).
NAIA: Are there too many dogs and cats?

Breeding is not a "hobby"; sewing, hiking, painting....there are many hobbies that do not cause an animal to die

[alice's mommy]

Shelby427: Wow! All I can say is wow! I had no idea that all those things could/do happen! If I had ever thought of breeding (which I have NOT!) this would certainly be a wake up call for me!!!!
Wonderful post! Scary, but wonderful.

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by alice's mommy

Shelby427: Wow! All I can say is wow! I had no idea that all those things could/do happen! If I had ever thought of breeding (which I have NOT!) this would certainly be a wake up call for me!!!!
Wonderful post! Scary, but wonderful.

someone else posted this info when another newbie came on here saying they were going to breed their "nice pets" so I found it again - I truly hope these people stop thinking about breeding...so sad.

[AngelBunny]

JagerLiLi:

At 6 mo old, your dogs won't be ready to breed for a very long time.

Ample time for you to start reading thru the postings here in Breeding to find out what real, COE, bona fide breeders do.

Ample time too, to read thru the postings in Rescue to find out what everybody else does--and what these everybody elses are called.

And ample time for you to figure out into which category you want to be classified.

[observer]

Just because you "want" your dogs to have a litter isn't even close to meaning that they SHOULD. "Health is good" won't just mean that your vet says that they are healthy. There are special certifications involved to guard against breeding dogs that are likely to produce one or more of the many problems this wonderful breed is prone to.


Read, read, read here. No REAL breeder who cares about the breed would have sold you two pups at once or would sell you one pup when you already had one (assuming that's what happened), and it is very rare with such breeders to breed their own female to their own male.

There is much to learn here. Stick around and keep reading, and asking questions.

[JoJo]

Welcome to the board. I hope you stick around and read and learn. Here's something for you to start with.

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/bre...nice-dogs.html

Then after reading that, continue reading all the other stickys in the Breeding Forum, then go to the Puppy Development Forum and then head for the Rescue Forum. Oh and please, don't forget to hit the Breed Specific Legislation Forum and everything else in-between.

If you have anymore questions in regards to breeding, please ask, for I'm sure there are plenty of members that will help you out.

[rottcrazed]

To say you are planning to breed the 2 puppies sitting in front of you to provide people with lovely pets is just a step away from a backyard breeder.

Breeding is SO not something to just jump into because you have 2 dogs with reproductive organs, and it can be heartbreaking.

I do hope you read, learn and hopefully, change your mind.

Kristi

[JagerLiLi]

Thank you for all of your post!! Some harsh some not so harsh. I appreciate them all though... The breeding of this breed IS a HARSH reality as well as the conciquences of BYB... There is no arguing that point! This is what I'm saying, I would NEVER breed them without getting them cleared health wise. I know there are many clearances you must get to completely get the OK for breeding, this is not mandatory but it is for me. I'm not arguing this! I don't want to produce a genetically ill pet for anyone! If I have to wait until they are two years of age before breeding, then that's fine. So that means I will skip the second and even the third heat! Also, there is a local university vet here where I live and they are very good at what they do. You can leave your animal there to have the pups. I do want to start showing my male. I do all of the training myself but have yet been to a show. They do not come from a champion bloodline that I know of. In fact it was BYB's. They had a great set up and had great standard sized dogs. I do wish I knew about the health issues with the breed though! These are my 5th and 6th rottweilers... I am 23 years old and have not done much research on them until I got these two. I had a male die at 8months due to a heart attack. I thought this was due to a possible inbreed, but in fact prolly an irresponsible BYB. I was 13 years old and was super attached to the dog. I also had one we had to put to sleep due to cancer. This I wish on nobody! I dont know why it's a big deal that Im rasing two pups at the same time? They are extremely attached to me and my gf. They would rather be with us than each other and there is no doubt about that! If they are not to the "standard" I will not breed them together. My next Rott will be one from an approved breeder with health certs. Again I appreciate all post, and take none of them negatively! This is supposed to be why we post. To get all of the knowledgeable replys!! I have a year and a half to decide whether or not to breed my two. Thanks again!

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by Shelby427

Here are a few problems you may encounter if you decide to breed your "nice pets"

What if during the breeding...

The stud dog you have chosen is carrying a venereal disease and gives it to your female. She not only doesn't conceive, but you have to pay the vet bills to get her infection cleared up and she is now sterile.

The stud dog you decided to breed your darling to is not experienced. Once the two dogs are joined tightly in a tie, he decides to chase the neighbors cat out of his yard. He bolts for the cat ripping his --male genitalia-- loose and causing your bitch to hemorrhage from within.

Your modest girl decides she doesn't want the attentions of this gigolo mutt chosen for her without her consent. She snaps at him catching her tooth on his loose cheek and rips it open sending blood everywhere. He retaliates by sinking his teeth into her left eye.

You leave your dog with the stud owner because the breeding is not going very swiftly. In fact, it's been three hours and nothing is happening. The stud owners leave the two dogs alone in the back yard. The dogs get out through a tiny hole in the fence and a truck hits your female.

You pay the $250-$1,000 stud fee up front figuring you will make that and more back when the pups sell. The breeder guarantees the stud service to work or you can come back again. After 2 months you discover it didn't work and now must wait another 4 months to try again. Of course it doesn't work again, so in another 4 months you take your dog to another male and risk loosing another stud fee.

You get her bred. Bring her home. She bothers you so you let her outside (she is still in heat and still receptive to males). You here a commotion outside there is your girl tied up with the neighborhood mutt. When she whelps, there will need to be DNA tests done on the pups.

You get her bred. Bring her home. Let her out (she is still in heat and receptive to other males), but you do not see the neighborhood mutt breed her. The pups are born but look odd. You call the stud owner he suggests DNA testing (at your expense). You have a litter of mutts! What do you do about the ones you have already sold?

Or knowing she tied with the neighborhood mutt you decide to terminate the pregnancy and try again being more careful next time. But a few weeks later your female is very sick because you had her given a mis-mate shot creating a hormonal imbalance causing a uterine infection and now she has Pyometra and needs a complete hysterectomy. All plan of a litter are gone and your female's life is now in danger if she does not have the operation.

What if during the birth...

The puppies are too large for the females hips. She never goes into labor, the puppies die and she becomes infected by the decaying bodies.

The puppies are coming breach and they drown in their own sacks before they can be born.

The first puppy is large and breach. When it starts coming your female starts screaming, and before you can stop her she reaches around, grabs the puppy in her teeth and yanks it out killing it instantly.

A puppy gets stuck. Neither your female nor you can get it out. You have to race her to the vet. The vet can't get it out either. She has to have an emergency caesarian section of course it is 3:00 am Christmas day.

A puppy is coming out breach and dry (the water sack that protects them has burst). It gets stuck. Mom tries to help it out by clamping her teeth over one of the back legs. The head and shoulders are firmly caught. Mom pulls on the leg, hard, peeling the flesh from the leg and leaving a wiggling stump of bone.

A dead puppy gets stuck in the birth canal, but your female is well into hard labor. She contracts so hard trying to give birth that her uterus ruptures and she bleeds to death on the way to the vet.

What if directly after birth...

The mother has no idea what to do with a puppy and she drops them out and walks away, leaving them in the sack to drown.

The mother takes one look at the puppies, decides they are disgusting droppings and tries to smother them in anything she can find to bury them in.

The mother gets too enthusiastic in her removal of the placenta and umbilical cord, and rips the cord out leaving a gushing hole pulsing blood all over you as you try in vain to stop the bleeding.

Or, she pulls on the cords so hard she disembowels the puppies as they are born and you have a box full of tiny; kicking babies with a tangle of guts the size of a walnut hanging from their stomachs. Of course all the babies must be put to sleep.

What if because of some hormone deficiency she turns vicious allowing no one near her or the babies, who she refuses to nurse, or you have to interfere with.

You notice something protruding from her --female genitalia-- when you let her out to pee; you take her to the vet to discover a prolapsed uterus, which needs to be removed.

What if when you think you are in the clear...

One or more of the puppies inhaled fluid during birth, pneumonia develops and death occurs within 36 hours.

What if the mother's milk goes bad. You lose three of your four puppies before you discover what is wrong. You end up bottle feeding the remaining pup every two hours, day and night. After three days the puppy fades from infection and dies.

The puppies develop fading puppy syndrome you lose two. You bottle-feeding or tube feeding the last remaining baby. It begins to choke and despite your efforts to clear the airway, the pup stiffens and dies in your hands.

Your female develops mastitis and her breast ruptures.

Your female develops a uterine infection from a retained placenta. Her temperature soars to 105. You race her to the vet, he determines she must be spayed. He dose the spay in an attempt to save her life, you pay the hundreds of dollars bill. The infection has gone into her blood stream. The infected milk kills all the puppies and the bitch succumbs a day later.

All the puppies are fine, but following the birth the female develops a hormone imbalance. She becomes a fear biter and anytime anyone tries to touch her she viscously attacks them.

Mom and pups seem fine, the puppies are four weeks old and are at their cutest. But one day, one of the puppies disappears. You search everywhere but you can't find it. A few days later another puppy is gone. And another. You can't figure how on earth the puppies are getting out of their safe 4' x 4' puppy pen. Finally there is only one puppy left. The next morning you find the mother chomping contentedly on what is left of the last murdered puppy.

What if the new homes are not so happy?...

You give a puppy to a friend. Their fence blows down so they tie the puppy outside while they go to work. A roving dog comes along and kills the puppy. Your friend calls you up to tell you about the poor little puppy and asks when you are having more puppies.

You sell a puppy to an acquaintance. The next time you see them you ask how the puppy is doing. They tell you that it soiled their new carpet so they took it to the pound.

You sell a puppy to a friend (you give them a good price and payments). They make a couple of tiny payments. Six months later they move to an apartment. They ask you to take it back. You take it back and of course the payments stop. The dog they returned is so shy, and ill-mannered from lack of socialization and training it takes you a year of work providing socializing and training to be able to give it away.

You sell a puppy to a wonderful home. They love her like one of the family. At a vet check done by their vet it is determined that the puppy has a heart murmur (your vet found nothing when he checked the puppy before it was sold). They love their puppy and want the best for her. They have an expensive surgery done. The puppy is fine. They sue you for the medical costs. They win, because you did not have a contract stipulating conditions of guarantee and so, as the breeder, you are responsible for the puppy's genetic health.

You give a puppy to your mother. She is thrilled. Two years later the puppy starts developing problems. It begins to develop odd symptoms and is suffering. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of tests later it is finally discovered that the dog is suffering from a terminal condition that was inherited. possibly from your female since you know nothing about her family lines.

One loving home decides your puppy is untrainable, destructive and wants to return the pup and get a full refund, which you have spent on your vet bills.

One loving couple calls you and is very upset because their pup has crippling hip displasia and want to know what you are going to do about it. You have spayed your female so a replacement is out of the question, looks like another refund.

The Sale...

You put your ad in the local paper for your pups at the usual price and get only 2 responses and no sales. You cut the pup's price in half and broaden your advertising to 3 other newspapers in which the advertising totals $120.00 a week.

You get a few more puppy inquiries from people who ask all about health testing you did before breeding and if the pups are registered. You tell them your dogs are healthy and it was enough and that you could get the papers. The callers politely thank you and hang up.

The pups are now 4 months old and getting bigger, eating alot and their barking is really beginning to annoy the neighbors, who call the police who inform you of the $150.00 noise bylaw.

Your neighbors also call the humane society which comes out to inspect the care of your dogs. You pass inspection but end up feeling stressed and harassed.

You finally decide to give the rest of the litter away but still have to pay the $1200 advertising bill and the $600 vet bill.

So you gotta ask yourself...do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, "breeder?"
~Author Unknown~

That would turn any potential byb off i would hope! Great post!!!