Starting to breed...

[Skip]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

....Once again, I'm not breeding these two if these things dont fall in place. Like you said, it has be explained to me, several times, from knowledgeable people. Its also been explained by me several times, my intentions, and concerns they are one of the same. .....

I guess we just want to make sure you realize "these things" are super important. ALL of "these things" mentioned...health certs, titles on both ends, background knowledge of the parents, grandparents...So, like you said, you won't even consider breeding if "these things don't fall in place", then you've got a LOT of work on your hands for the next couple years...showing them, working them, getting all the health certs, finding out who parents were and what strengths/weaknesses are in those lines....But I guess I still don't understand your desire to even start thinking and asking questions about breeding until all "these things" are done. You've got so many things to start doing with these dogs now, and they will take you at least a couple years.

[observer]

JagerLili-- you mentioned your last few posts not going through....there is a delay in displaying posts by Novice Members, as they have to be reviewed by one of the moderators. If they haven't all shown up, they will soon.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

What if I find out that these dogs are not genetically ill?

Without a history of the bloodlines (do you have that without registration?) there is NO way to even GUESS at what genetic illness could rear its ugly head when your dogs turn 4 or 5 or 6.

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

What if these dogs are amazingly perfect proportioned dogs?

By whose standards....yours? There's a REASON purebred dogs are required to have registration papers for participation in the BREED RING. Without a certified pedigree, there is no proof of heritage and therefore no proof that the dogs are purebred. There's a REASON why ethical breeders take their dogs to shows...so they can be evaluated amongst a group of their peers by an IMPARTIAL THIRD PARTY (a JUDGE) against the standard for the breed. Without doing this, you have no idea how your dogs measure up.

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

What if all of these things fall in place? Just because their parents arent 9 time grand champions, I shouldn't breed them? Because I can't find time to attend a show in a different city every week, I shouldn't breed them?

That's right. If you can't do what needs to be done to understand WHAT YOU'RE BREEDING...then NO, you shouldn't breed them!

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

I understand the carelessness of our breeds community in producing puppies to make money. I understand that's why there are so many health problems within our breed. A lot of people dont concern themselves with the health of the breed. To be PERFECTLY HONEST a lot of people are clueless to the genetic health issues of the Rott!

You HONESTLY don't understand this at all, based on your previous statements. And you can include YOURSELF in that clueless lot of people as well....without knowledge of bloodlines and PROPER certifications for both health and working ability, any breeding activity IS clueless.

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

Once again, I'm not breeding these two if these things dont fall in place.

Like you said, it has be explained to me, several times, from knowledgeable people.

The overall well being of my two dogs and any puppies they give to this world is my number ONE concern!

Once again, I will not breed them if there is one thing not right or one thing I can not prove.

That is a lot of time from now to prove or disprove "worthyness" of breeding.

How in hell are you going to prove anything without doing what every ethical breeder KNOWS needs to be done? Are you some exception to the wise guidelines of responsible breeding or something?

[JoJo]

I just need to find out, what's all expected of my rotts to qualify

As people have said.......a knowledgeable owner for starters!

And people wonder why we get cranky!

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by JoJo

As people have said.......a knowledgeable owner for starters!

And people wonder why we get cranky!

LOL... cranky and feeling like I'm hitting my head against a wall.
I've had numerous dogs through over 30 years of ownership, and not once have I ever thought of or even wanted to breed one. Why is it so important for people to breed or think they need to breed their dogs???

To the OP, there are not enough good homes for "pet quality" puppies. Why do you think shelters and rescues are full? People like you think it would be fun and neat to breed...and maybe even make a few dollars too? The puppies you think find good homes...and if you sell off 8 puppies, I can guarantee you that before they are a year old, more than half of those puppies will not be in their original home. They will either be sitting in a shelter or in a rescue...or have been dumped to a friend or a neighbour,etc. These lives you produce, are your worry, for the rest of your life. Take a look at petfinder.com and see how many unwanted Rottweilers are in your area right now.

The world does not need anymore BYB's. I suggest when your pups are grown, and trained, and spayed and neutered....that you volunteer for a rescue or a shelter...maybe foster a pregnant dog. Then tell us about how much "fun" it is.

Gina

[observer]

It's not just YOUR dogs that need to have health certifications from OFA and otherwise show that they are worthy of being bred. Since the pups came from BYBs, I'm betting that their parents and grandparents don't have OFA certs or conformation or working titles. If they don't, then you have no idea what you are actually breeding. You need to know more than just the status of the dogs you have, but their ancestors, as well.

Leave the breeding to the experts who really care about doing it right and bettering the breed. The cycle of BYBs needs to be ended, not perpetuated by breeding BYB pups to each other.

It's good that the pups seem to be bonded to you and not to each other... keep that up, with training and exercise, every day. Spay and neuter these two, and enjoy them... take them in obedience or some other working activity. They will be happy with "jobs" and you will not be adding to a problem we are already dealing with too much.

[JagerLiLi]

I WANT to breed my dogs! You people are talking to me like I've bred my dog for the third time and like I don't care about animals. I have a year and a half PLUS to gather the needed information before I do decide. A lot of your opinions are based on information that you don't know... My male's sire and dam have been cleared, for heart, elbows, and hips they said nothing on the eyes. They did not show their dog. I contacted my female's breeders and they "said" they are going to do this. They also contacted their breeders to find out some information for me as well. Who said that my dogs are not registered? They are both registered! I have come to this forum to gain information not to hear slating! I understand that breeding is a touchy topic, but if you want people to listen to you, you should work on your deliveries! Now you have to be an expert to want to better the breed? Just because one person has owned dogs their whole lives and never once wanted to breed their animals, doesn't mean myself or anyone else SHOULD feel the same way. I got a list of things I need for CGC test requirements, and I will be doing this shortly! Noww that I know about the risks, my next pups will be selected more carefully. Not just on the apperance of the parents and grandparents! We all learn, and we all start somewhere. Like I said I have a good while before a final decision is made.

[jakesfostermom]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

I got a list of things I need for CGC test requirements, and I will be doing this shortly!

I do hope you realize that the CGC test, while a wonderful accomplishment for our pets, has ZERO - NOTHING - NADA to do with whether a dog should be bred, don't you? A CGC is for sit/stay/be nice..........that is NO qualifying factor for reproductive worth.........

[jaden]

I know some advice can be hard to listen to...I am new to this forum and have dealt with a fair share of hurtful things myself. BUT...after I stuck my pride in my pocket I started to listen.

I own 2 dogs, a 5 yr old female and an 8 month old male. I have never entertained the thought of breeding because frankly with 3 kids, 2 dogs, 3 cats, a gerbil and a bunny my nerves would be shot, and I know nothing about it. You may even wait a couple of years to do this, learning everything you can, but that does not make a person qualified. Like other's have said, your dogs may test perfectly physically, but you never know mentally how they may be. I did not know about BYB until coming to this forum, but I am sure even though both my dogs came with papers, that they are not from qualified breeders. This being said do you really want to adopt puppies out to homes with families not knowing this dog may have a recessive trait of being aggressive? How would you be able to screen every person that wanted a pup to see if it's a good home? ALOT of people want Rott's as pets because they love the fear factor. Qualified breeders can probably spot these people a mile away even if they lied to their faces about why they wanted the dog.

You also said "My intentions with the money, is to put up in a seperate account and save it for a doggy emergency. If something happens to any of my dogs, the money will go for that." My husband and I use our income tax check for this purpose every year. There is also pet insurance that your vet can recommend.

Read the advice, take out some of the harshness and you are still left with good advice. It may not be delivered the best, but when people talk from the heart as well as the mind it comes with great emotion.

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

I WANT to breed my dogs! You people are talking to me like I've bred my dog for the third time and like I don't care about animals. I have a year and a half PLUS to gather the needed information before I do decide. A lot of your opinions are based on information that you don't know... My male's sire and dam have been cleared, for heart, elbows, and hips they said nothing on the eyes. They did not show their dog. I contacted my female's breeders and they "said" they are going to do this. They also contacted their breeders to find out some information for me as well. Who said that my dogs are not registered? They are both registered! I have come to this forum to gain information not to hear slating! I understand that breeding is a touchy topic, but if you want people to listen to you, you should work on your deliveries! Now you have to be an expert to want to better the breed? Just because one person has owned dogs their whole lives and never once wanted to breed their animals, doesn't mean myself or anyone else SHOULD feel the same way. I got a list of things I need for CGC test requirements, and I will be doing this shortly! Noww that I know about the risks, my next pups will be selected more carefully. Not just on the apperance of the parents and grandparents! We all learn, and we all start somewhere. Like I said I have a good while before a final decision is made.

Then don't bother with breeding these puppies in the future.
I can tell you if these pups were sold to you with full registration...and that there was nothing in your contract about having all of the health certs done, as well as titling them...then they came from BYB's. No COE breeder would allow one of their puppies to breed...and they would have made sure you knew what was required of your puppies before money exchanged hands.

You have no clue on what a good breeder is....good breeders do not have their dogs tested AFTER they have already produced a litter!

No titles means that they do not care...not care, about the standard, or about the breed.

It seems we are talking in circles. You have no understanding of what a good breeder is...so you should not even think of beginning with these two.

Gina

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by jakesfostermom

I do hope you realize that the CGC test, while a wonderful accomplishment for our pets, has ZERO - NOTHING - NADA to do with whether a dog should be bred, don't you? A CGC is for sit/stay/be nice..........that is NO qualifying factor for reproductive worth.........

The OP clearly does not care. The OP got her dogs from a BYB and want to breed them regardless if the pedigree is worthy. The OP thinks that just because they are deemed healthy and look great, he/she should breed them. Yes, COE breeders all start from somewhere, but they go to shows, meet a real, coe breeder, have said breeder mentor them, co-own a bitch to breed, show said bitch, get titles on her, get health clearances done, all the while knowing that the pedigree is worthy. The OP just wants to breed for fun.

The OP doesn't even know that having a CGC on your dog doesn't mean it's worthy of being bred. My BYB dog with bad hips can get her CGC.

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

I WANT to breed my dogs! You people are talking to me like I've bred my dog for the third time and like I don't care about animals. I have a year and a half PLUS to gather the needed information before I do decide. A lot of your opinions are based on information that you don't know... My male's sire and dam have been cleared, for heart, elbows, and hips they said nothing on the eyes. They did not show their dog. I contacted my female's breeders and they "said" they are going to do this. They also contacted their breeders to find out some information for me as well. Who said that my dogs are not registered? They are both registered! I have come to this forum to gain information not to hear slating! I understand that breeding is a touchy topic, but if you want people to listen to you, you should work on your deliveries! Now you have to be an expert to want to better the breed? Just because one person has owned dogs their whole lives and never once wanted to breed their animals, doesn't mean myself or anyone else SHOULD feel the same way. I got a list of things I need for CGC test requirements, and I will be doing this shortly! Noww that I know about the risks, my next pups will be selected more carefully. Not just on the apperance of the parents and grandparents! We all learn, and we all start somewhere. Like I said I have a good while before a final decision is made.

How do you figure? What about your bitch? What about their grandparents and greatgrandparents? What do you know about them? I'm guessing nothing and you want to breed because YOU want to, not because you want to better the breed, not because you want to show dogs, not because of anything other than your selfish reason to bring LIVES into this world, not caring a bit about them.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

I WANT to breed my dogs! You people are talking to me like I've bred my dog for the third time and like I don't care about animals. I have a year and a half PLUS to gather the needed information before I do decide. A lot of your opinions are based on information that you don't know... My male's sire and dam have been cleared, for heart, elbows, and hips they said nothing on the eyes..... .

Ok...this will be easy for you, and will help give us info so that we will ALL know. What are the OFA (health clearance) numbers on the sire and dam that have been "cleared for heart, elbows, and hips"?

[JagerLiLi]

Actually, the CGC is something that I want the dogs to have and go through! My dog being able to sit and stay and the other things does not mean the pups will! Again yall are jumping to conclusions... Shelly247, I am not a SHE but a HE. And if I did not care, I would have never joined the forum. I would not be talking here now. The contract sale for my male was that my male went through health checks and all of the above... I had to pay extra to get breeding/showing papers. Again jumping to conclusions. Something I did not know, was the genetic problems they may carry! Saying that people do not care about their dogs because they breed them is also ridiculous! Just because yall are well informed on this issue doesnt mean everyone is. A lot of people don't browse the internet, a lot of people dont join rottweiler forums. But a lot of the same people LOVE their dogs and would NEVER want anything to happen to them or their pups. THEY ARE NOT INFORMED not NEGLIGENT!!! We ARE talking in circles, and if I could close the forum from anymore post, I WOULD...

[moondog]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

I WANT to breed my dogs! You people are talking to me like I've bred my dog for the third time and like I don't care about animals.

No....we're talking like people who recognize the dangers of breeding untested/unproven dogs before the deed is done, not after. We're also talking like people who recognize that ignorance is bliss for many, especially when it comes to reproducing a dogs.

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

Who said that my dogs are not registered? They are both registered!

My sincere apologies for my misconception on this. I should have known better than to assume a previous poster got that info from another thread, rather than checking for myself.

The good news is, this means you can research health/working ability/temperament in your dogs' lines (both vertically and horzontally) and you can have them evaluated in venues for conformation and working ability.

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

I got a list of things I need for CGC test requirements, and I will be doing this shortly!...We all learn, and we all start somewhere.

Yes, we do! And CGC is just the beginning. It's not a title, it's a good manners certificate. Hardly enough to test a dog, but a step in the right direction, so consider it your starting point....there will be much more needed to determine breedworthiness.