protective rottie moms?

[maryellen]

so, if you were to go see a litter of puppies, and the breeder told you the mother is protective around her pups so she couldnt have you meet the mother, wouldnt that be a red flag? i know mother dogs are protective of their pups, but to the degree you couldnt meet them with the pups around , even if the pups are 4 weeks or older?

[brunie's mom]

Not a good sign. Usually by the time they are 4 weeks old, momma dog does not care as much.
I would be worried why they did not want you to meet the dam.
What health certifications does she and the sire have? Do they have OFA numbers for hips, elbows, eyes and heart? What titles?

Gina

[targonrotts]

i agree with gina. if pups were less than 4 weeks, i can see the mother still protective, but older...hmmmm.
i can understand a breeder not showing the pups until after the first set of shots or about 6-7 weeks or older, to keep them from picking up stuff.not too many breeders are keen on having people come to their house with really young pups.
mom dog should be able to be met, at least away from pups.

[GypsysMom]

My breeder doesnt allow people over to see the pups until they are 4 weeks old, then she has them seperated from the mom, I met Cash's mom and dad after I met him and his siblings they were 5 weeks when I looked at them

[maryellen]

there are 2 pups, one is 4 weeks, and one is 9 weeks. we were going to mostly meet the 9 week old, as the 4 week old is too young right now.. the breeder told me that the mother dogs are very protective, and i cant meet them, but when they dont have pups around the mother dogs are very loving. i can meet the father dog, and all the others she said. i am NOT happy that i cant meet the dams even off the property..

the mother dogs hips are OFA good, the results are on her site. her pedigree has alot of SCH 2 and 3 on it and BH.

her site says she is a COE breeder .

the sire has OFA excellent which the ofa results are on her site as well. both mother and father were born in 2002

[rottcrazed]

Jewel was quite protective of her pups the first week and a half for both of her litters, to the point that a family friend came over she sees twice a year (but whom she normally greets with licks and wiggles, and has since done) growled at him while he was in the doorway and she was in the pen nursing. After 2 weeks of age, no problem.

In fact, everyone who came to see the litter beyond that point (no puppy buyers come over until the puppies are 4 weeks mind you) while she was still nursing was greeted with a lick and wiggle ....

If the breeder is not willing to allow the mother to see potential puppy buyers, that to me is a sign Momma dog has a poor temperament.

RUN .....

Kristi

[maryellen]

thank you everyone, i had a bad feeling the moment the breeder told me this in her email, and was already thinking NO.. i just wanted to confirm my feelings..

[maryellen]

pups are 4 weeks old and the other litter the pups are 9 weeks old. i even suggested meeting the mother dogs off premises, and was told i couldnt.

[maryellen]

this is the new response from the breeder i emailed saying i was declining to see the pups

I'm sorry you feel that way. I can show them to you you just can't get up close and personal with them. I have been breeding for 30 years and I know that all Rottie moms are very protective of their young. It's only me in the house and the girls do not get a lot of socialization. That is no reflection on the pups. The pups are mellow and very friendly. You would be missing out on a very well bred smart pup but I understand your feelings.

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by maryellen

this is the new response from the breeder i emailed saying i was declining to see the pups

I'm sorry you feel that way. I can show them to you you just can't get up close and personal with them. I have been breeding for 30 years and I know that all Rottie moms are very protective of their young. It's only me in the house and the girls do not get a lot of socialization. That is no reflection on the pups. The pups are mellow and very friendly. You would be missing out on a very well bred smart pup but I understand your feelings.

I would run from this "breeder" - not only because she won't let you see the dam, but you only mention OFA on hips - what about elbows, eyes and heart?

[maryellen]

no where on her site does it show the results for eyes, heart ,etc... when i asked her if she performed the below tests, she said she did, but who knows..her site only states the OFA certificates..

health tests all breeding stock prior to breeding, and certifies health of breeding stock prior to breeding where such certifications are available. Tests and certifications shall be conducted and processed prior to any dog being bred. Required health tests and certifications include: hips, elbows, thyroid, and heart (evaluated and certified by organizations such as Orthopedic Foundation for Animals [OFA] for hips, elbows, thyroid, and heart, or PennHip for hips). Dogs should test negative for Brucellosis and von Willebrand's Disease. Additional testing may be conducted for the following health abnormalties: Spinocerebellar/Hereditary Ataxia (specifically on American Staffordshire Terriers), and Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) with subsequent registration with Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) encouraged for dogs free of PRA. Results and certifications of any and all tests will be made readily available to potential buyers if tested and certified dogs will be bred. In addition, immediately prior to each breeding, all breeding stock should pass a basic veterinary health examination and be determined to be in good health.

Item 3: No dog with unsatisfactory health tests and/or certification results shall ever be bred. Unsatisfactory results would be (among others):

a) OFA hip ratings below fair
b) OFA elbow ratings that indicated elbow dysplasia
c) PennHip ratings that show abnormal joint laxity
d) thyroids that do not test normal; thyroids that test TgAA positive
e) hearts that are not found to be clear of murmurs or other abnormalities upon examination with a Doppler (ultrasound) exam by a Board Certified Cardiologist
f) positive tests for Spincerebellar/Hereditary Ataxia
g) positive tests for PRA
h) positive tests for any other hereditary/congenital/genetic disease

Note 3) No dog that has ever been diagnosed with a hereditary/congenital skin disease (including demodectic mange) shall ever be bred. A dog with chronic health problems (such as skin allergies) and/or weaknesses, and/or immune weakness shall never be bred. A dog that has torn anterior cruxiate cigaments (ACL) shall never be bred unless the torn ligaments were damaged because of conceivable stress and/or injury which indicate normal environmental causes and not hereditary/congenital/genetic weakness.

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by maryellen

this is the new response from the breeder i emailed saying i was declining to see the pups

I'm sorry you feel that way. I can show them to you you just can't get up close and personal with them. I have been breeding for 30 years and I know that all Rottie moms are very protective of their young. It's only me in the house and the girls do not get a lot of socialization. That is no reflection on the pups. The pups are mellow and very friendly. You would be missing out on a very well bred smart pup but I understand your feelings.

Not a lot of socialization????
This must mean that they have no titles or championships on them either. A dog that has been to shows and trials for obedience titles or other things is social.
Just because she has OFA hips, there are elbows and eyes and heart to be certified too....does not mean she is a good breeder. And just because she has been a BYB for 30 years does not meaning she is doing it right.

E-mail her back and ask her what titles her dogs have? Ask her why she thinks they are worthy of being bred. If she has not shown them and she has not titled them in anything...then they are not worthy of breeding.

To have two litters, and the 9 week old litter still not sold...is typical BYB. She probably has the male dog too? These girls never have to leave the property....just live there and produce babies....geeezzz!

Run!

Gina

[maryellen]

she said she had one 9 week old pup left, and a 4 week old male.. we have been corresponding by email only.. she hasnt asked me for my number or anything..

now i also filled out an app for a breeder in TN.. within 15 minutes of my sending my application in, the breeder called me at my work, and was speaking to me from 9:15am until 11:20 when i had to get off the phone.. she asked me a ton of questions, and i asked her a ton, and we talked about everything and anything. she told me she shows her dogs, and her site shows it, plus health testing.. she was very involved in asking me a ton of questions too..

talk about a huge difference, the one in NY didnt even ask for my number or my vets number, and the one in TN i had to fill out an app with my vets phone number and name on it, and fill out a ton of info on how many dogs i have, etc...

[maryellen]

none of her dogs have any titles showing on her site at all, or on their individual pages.. she just emailed me and told me someone else is interested in the 9 week old female, and if i want her i have to come tonight to put a deposit on her, as the first one who puts the deposit on gets the dog..

uh, sorry, i wont alter my plans to beat someone else who wants the pup too. if its meant to be its meant to be, second, i am not an idiot.. just because you say someone else wants the pup doesnt mean anything to me.. i dont plan on rushing into another dog, and i do plan on doing all my research before i get a new puppy..

[maryellen]

her email to me respondng to my request to see the paperwork for the health titles:

Hi Maryellen

The ofa certificates for the parents are on my site. I have had no reason to check for eyes since they are fine and so are their hearts. If you want written certification for heart and eyes I do not have it. No need to. And no the mother dogs are not shown. I only show my male.

If you would like a pup with all that written certification I would not have one for you. With Rotties the main concern in the breed is hips. Let me know if you are still interested. If so and you decide you want this little girl I would need cash on pick up.

Sorry to hear about your truck, I am having a run of bad luck myself with the well.