Noris Vom Grutenblick--questions

[Kandi]

There are so many different "good" bloodlines out there, which do you choose? I am not currently looking to get another, just have some questions. Both of my girls have Doc VD Teufelsbrucke in their lines, however the one has Noris also.
I have been told that some you can double or triple line breed on and there is no problems. Others, that is not the case. And Noris is one of those I have heard it is bad. I know from experience, that he produces bite problems if he is double line bred on. I have that problem with my one bitch and it is traced back to Noris. My question is, are there other known problems, health or cosmetic, that have been known to occur when he is used multiple times in a pedigree? Just wondered if any one knows. Since the tooth issue with my one girl, I vowed to never have anything to do with Noris, and that is just over teeth. I just wondered if there were more problems with him, or other dogs as well. When I get my next puppy, and it won't be for a few years, I want to research better than I did with the first two, I would like an idea of what to avoid. So, be it Noris or others, can anyone help by sharing their knowledge of problems with me, please.

[RoseArbour]

All of my dogs have Noris in their pedigree. We produced one puppy four years ago that was a Noris greatgrandson (on one side only) that was undershot. Otherwise the bites have been clean. And I have seen and known many dogs out of these similar lines.
I have three double Noris great-grandsons with clean bites.
One of these males has a litter of 8 week old puppies out of a Noris granddaughter. Clean bites there too.
I have a double Noris litter on the ground now. I don't anticipate any problems with their dentition there either. <shrug> So my experience has been positive.
I would say that the more a dog has been bred the more likely you are to hear of the good, the bad and the ugly. <shrug> Is your female over/undershot? Or does she have a missing tooth?

[Kandi]

No, my female is missing 2 teeth, so she DQ'd. Also, she has a brother that is known to have ASA, and when they rebred her parents, the second litter has the same problems. I know also of another male in her litter missing 2 teeth and one missing 1 tooth. They should have waited on the second breeding to see how the first turned out, but sometimes that does not happen.
I personally feel it was just a wrong combination of genes/pedigrees that caused the problems, but don't really know so thought I would research as I could. I heard the tooth issue from several sources, so I do not doubt it, not saying it happens all the time, but it happens and is believed to come from him. Since I purchased from a COE, they took care of the problem, and I spayed her, or they would not have refunded, so that helped. But, still leaves a lot of open doors when one starts to look around and think about a future puppy and what they want.

[RoseArbour]

Would you be willing to share the pedigree? I am very curious!

[poohbearsmom]

To my knowledge, Noris was a very strong dog temperamentally. Mouth problems are the only issues I've heard of. Missing teeth to be exact.

He's in almost all of my pedigrees, and as a line breeding to boot. No problems so far.

[Kandi]

Originally Posted by RoseArbour

Would you be willing to share the pedigree? I am very curious!

Possibly, but not sure. My breeder may not appreciate it. But there are many questions I would like answered. If I do share, does it need to be here on the forum, for all to see?

[brooklyn vic]

Kandi Your Breeder Should Have Nothing To Do With You Letting Others Help You In Your Search For Any Problems In The Line.it Is Your Dog Correct So The Bloodline And Pedigree Go With That.you May Have Dealt With A Somewhat Shady Breeder If They Are Not Proud Of What They Produce And What Is In There Bloodlines.good Luck And Health With Your Dogs.

[RoseArbour]

You don't have to share on here, no. I'm easy enough to find online since we can't post our email addy anymore. :-)

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by brooklyn vic

Kandi Your Breeder Should Have Nothing To Do With You Letting Others Help You In Your Search For Any Problems In The Line.it Is Your Dog Correct So The Bloodline And Pedigree Go With That.you May Have Dealt With A Somewhat Shady Breeder If They Are Not Proud Of What They Produce And What Is In There Bloodlines.good Luck And Health With Your Dogs.

Please, in the future, do not post using initial caps. Your comments are hard to read.

[Kandi]

Originally Posted by brooklyn vic

Kandi Your Breeder Should Have Nothing To Do With You Letting Others Help You In Your Search For Any Problems In The Line.it Is Your Dog Correct So The Bloodline And Pedigree Go With That.you May Have Dealt With A Somewhat Shady Breeder If They Are Not Proud Of What They Produce And What Is In There Bloodlines.good Luck And Health With Your Dogs.

I did not mean to imply my breeder was shady or anything like that. If you had a slight problem in your line, and I am not saying it is my breeder's fault either, could be the owner of the male, would you announce it to the world. I want to show my one girl and getting into the show world is difficult enough. If I start shouting out problems I have with the one breeder, and not saying that there are problems there, then eventually who will want to sell me a puppy. I do not want to be blacklisted by anyone, and have learned that somethings are better off not being told to the world. Though I wish the owner of the male would have been upfront with my breeder and told her about the tooth problem. It was only after that came to light that she felt compelled to share. I don't think that right. The males owner is a big time, long time breeder, so I do not wish to make waves. That is all I meant.

[roscoe]

So, exactly what is it your attempting to do?

ah, forget it, I'm not interested.