Sickening just sickening-What newspaper ads from Puppy Mills look like

[observer]

Many of the people responding with concerns on this thread have long histories of breeding (with proper certifications and titles), showing and training Rottweilers. They care about the breed enough not to breed their females often or have thirty pups for sale at one time. They aren't just GOOGLING. They DO have facts, and are speaking from experience. They don't have to see the facility to express concerns.

We have asked this breeder legitimate questions that anyone looking to buy a puppy should ask. They are looking for FACTS from this breeder that any buyer should be looking for. We are not getting answers. Most breeders are proud to give out the names and certifications of their breeding stock. AKC papers mean next to nothing, except they are more often than not reliable to show that a dog is purebred. Having such papers says nothing about the quality of a purebred dog.

Ms Steeley-

If you saw OFA certs for the parents of your puppy, that's very good. There's a thread here that shows what those papers actually look like. But, without the identifying information to check it out, I don't think we can take it as fact until we see the regisered names to verify independently that they are OFA certified. Most ethical breeders will HAVE the certification information ON the website, if they have them. They don't say "OFA background" or similar phrase. So, you can see why we would question whether the breeding stock is certified.

If you are happy with the dog you got, and it is healthy and has a good temperament, that's wonderful. That's what we'd like to see for everyone. But with the breeding practices that seem to be happening here, not every one of these many puppies and their owners may be so lucky.

If by having this discussion we educate people on what to look for and what questions to ask when they go shopping for a puppy, we have done a good thing for the breed.

[spidey]

NOBODY who has over 50 dogs is anything but a puppy mill (or a "collector", but they don't usually pretend to be dog breeders). That is a factory farm, not an ethical dog breeder. I don't need to see it to know that even if these dogs are kept in spotless conditions, they are no more than livestock used to produce more livestock for money, these are not pets, they are not working dogs and they are not show dogs, they are puppy machines. It is shameful to treat an animal as people-oriented as a dog like this, and there is simply no ethically valid excuse for farming dogs as if they were sheep or cattle or CORN, without health tests, without proven conformation and ability, without attention to making the best crosses through pedigree research, without any qualification other than working gonads. This is sickening, and the fact that people try to defend it out of ignorance and misplaced defensiveness is even more sickening.

I know ethical breeders who spend YEARS planning a single litter. If this person actually understood the breed and knew ANYTHING about ethical dog breeding, she wouldn't be owning 50 dogs and churning out puppies like a factory assembly line, she'd own a few dogs, show and work them extensively, health test all her breeding stock (not "OFA pedigree" but THIS DOG'S OFA#) and happily share the results with prospective owners, breed with specific goals (OTHER than making money off puppies), plan litters carefully and breed to dogs outside her own backyard and offer a contract that was actually meaningful. This person does none of these things, and additionally spouts bizarre theories about things like why dogs have white on them, therefore she is not an ethical dog breeder, she is not a knowledgeable breed fancier, she is a BYB/puppy miller.

[observer]

Ms Steeley-

My balky old computer won't let me edit my post to add this. As I said, it's great that you are happy with your dog. Now that you have found this site, stay here and read -- learn from true experts. Look at the titles after the dogs' names in many of the signatures. These people have given their lives to bettering the breed... not just selling puppies. They know better than to say things like that Rottie pups get white markings from being stressed while being pushed out of the mother.

Amanda's post just above this is right on the mark.

I know how much I have learned in two years here. You could have the same experience.

And, by the way, we aren't asking for "copies" of anything. Juat AKC names/numbers.

[Valentine]

You know....

If this lady was not a BYBer or a Puppy Mill....

She would have no problem with PROVING her dogs. She would make with the OFA numbers and would have no problem with answering our questions instead of coming on here and shouting at us (using all caps)...really, that sounds very unprofessional.

She also would not need to make fake user names to back herself up with a phoney customer...haha

[Sammy W]

Mrs. Wentling, I would like to ask you to sale your puppies on a limited registration until the puppies are OFA and have a fair or better rateing at 2 years of age before giving full registration. That would at least assure that you are not producing hip dysplacia.

[Pullo]

Well it sounded like the customer was probablly her daughter. I just cant add anything that hasent been said. I am just sitting here scratching my head confused how anyone could think this is not a puppymill. 50 puppys at a time !!!! wow gimme a break please post pedigrees or ofa #'s even then that is alot of dogs at once esppecially if you always have that many sounds like your only sorce of income very sad. : (

[Hannamia]

WoW
That is all I can about this entire post...wow
30 plus puppies I read??? Hmmm now how many am I to assume will go straight to the shelter? How many will I to assume will go to a reascue from there? How many will I assume be rescued? How many will I assume not live to see their first first birthday? And we wonder why we are fighting BSL??? And people on the streeting running from us screaming because the breed of dog we have. And how these dogs wind up in the hands of idiot people fighting them or wanting tough dogs. I am not a breeder, nor do I have desire. I am a rescuer. This lady is telling us that she can account for every puppy where they went after they were sold and SURPRIZINGLY no puppies have been returned????????? WOW that is amazing. Also normally don't breeders have long waiting list for there puppys????

[Barb and Raven]

I agree with all the other posters to this thread.
I just want to add this: Where are all of these many puppies being sold to? Who is buying them? Are they being sold throughout the country because it would seem to me that she would run out of customers within her own home area. This is very sad.

[Ninasmom]

Unfortunately, I think I know who she sells to. People like my cousin who run Pet Stores that sell puppies. My cousin is proud of the fact that every week or so, he drives to PA to deal directly with "the breeders" and pick up new pups.

I no longer speak to my cousin (because of the difference in our ethics with regard to animals) so I can't verify if he is dealing with this particular puppy mill but I can guarantee that there are probably others like him who are.

[s1960]

I understand the desire of forum members that a discussion like this will help educate future Rottweiler owners about what to avoid but everyone here has got to know a breeder that will falsely advertise their dogs this way, attempt to acquire a free male to breed 5 females to and insists Kimbertal is a name to be proud of isn't going to be changed. She sells these dogs for $900 dollars, she knows exactly what she is doing. I apologise to anyone who may have seen my post from yesterday insulting her but I find it very frustrating that every time I turn around laws like AB1634 here in California are being passed that are a threat to responsible breeders and owners yet it would grant someone like this with her "inspections" some kind of phony respectability. Steve Strom

[Shelly Wentling]

Originally Posted by TamieK

Last Sunday I was reading the classifieds of my local paper and I always read the pets for sale. I would never buy a dog out of the paper -- I'm really into rescue. Well I came to the Rottweiler section and an ad for thirty (30) Rottweiler puppies. They were accepting deposits for these puppies. It just made me sick. It makes my skin crawl just thinking about it now. Well, I decided to look up their kennel on the net and was just sickened more and more. When I first looked it up, the first hit was they were looking for a "free to good home male to breed with their 5 (the infamous rott millers in Pennsylvania) females. I hope I don't get into trouble for using that I just wanted you to know who I meant. I came upon their website and the are breeding "german, american and K rottweilers which makes them huge. Then they go on about not being a puppymill. Excuse me then what are you?? I had someone more knowledgable email them about certifications and titles and they came back with "our puppies are healthy and they are inspected frequently and if their animals are sick they would be shut down" I don't think they had a clue what she was asking for. Just as sickening was they now have 3 or 4 pomeranians and cannot wait til they're a year old to breed them. I hope I'm allowed to put this in because maybe they will answer more knowledgable people. The kennel is in Derry, Pennsylvania. I'm kind of hoping someone can educate them a little.

Hello to all you rue people who have no idea what your talking about....I am the daughter of Shelly Wentling...And i'll have you know that I spend time EVERYDAY with the adults...They do NOTjust sit in kennels all day with no human interaction...but either way none of you people have business writting anything about us...get a life and stay out of our business...I can almost guarentee none of you ignorant people have been here to see anything we have...and until then we don't have to show you or prove anything to you...and another thing...I am almost 18 right now...I was 15 when i made that website as a present for my mother...So I would appreciate if you idiotic people wouldn't say anything about the way I spelled things or the "COOL" bright colors I used...whats it to any of you anyways...ALL of you people are rediculous and obviously have NO lives if you can just sit here and talk all kinds of bull on us when none of you have even visited our kennels...First off you have no right...and second of all like I have already said none of you have been here to see anything...I'M PRETTY SURE IF WE WERE A PUPPY MILL we would have been shut down by the dog wardens who come 2 time a month...they were here on the 18th of this month and my mother passed with flying colors...THEY PASS HER ALL THE TIME...and I'll have you know any of you can come here and walk streight through our kennels to every single dog we have and they would do nothing but lick you to death...so don't sit here and say we can't possibly have well tempered rotties...again WHAT DO ANY OF YOU KNOW...
we raise our dogs inside before they go into kennels...and there are workers here spending time with EACH AND EVERY SINGLE DOG AND PUPPY THAT WE HAVE everyday...ALL DAY...and I'm sure my mother has already said this...but I will again to refresh your memories...We did not put that "ADD" in about a sick male and looking for another to breed with our females...We don't need a male we have 4 beauitful ones for your information...NOW...I amgoing to quit wasting my time inforing you ignorant people about us...I have an idea for all of you...Why don't you quit talking a bunch of bull crap on my mother and our rottie and come visit us yourself...but I see no one has the balls to come see for themselves...and then you can let us know what you think...face to face...If you can't do that...then again you have no right to be writing all these false accuastions...and to whom ever it was saying prove this and post up records and blah blah...Why should we if you are not purchase a puppy from us...and we don't have to prove anything to you strangers...unless you want to come here and see everything for yourself...ONLYpeople interested in our pupies get that kinda information...Vet Records...and all paper required for them...WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE ?!!

HAVE A BORNING DAY,
C-JAY

[Valentine]

Well I just confirmed it that she is in fact a puppy mill (a fancy one at that, its like covering up an old rusty car with pretty flowers...it's still old and rusty)

Her "German Stud" is not german. His tail is docked and was not imported
She thinks what the grandparents did 5 years ago is still a good enough reason to breed and sell dogs even though none of her current stock has seen a show nor do they work. she will sell two puppies to one customer.

Confirmed Puppy mill.

Go ahead, sue me I will do what it takes to stop puppy mills, i have nothing to lose.

[Anton]

I just checked...................she's in the forum right now, reading this thread.

But...........................will she answer.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by Shelly Wentling

Hello to all you rue people who have no idea what your talking about....

No, it's you who have no idea what you're talking about.

Go to the Breeding and Show Brags section.

Read thru the postings there.

Then, Google either the kennel name or the poster’s name you’ll find in the poster’s signatures.

Take a hard look at the web sites your search pulls up for the breeders in these forums. Compare them to the site you developed for your parent’s establishment.

You’ll see show pix. You’ll see pedigrees. You’ll see titles, front and back, of dogs’ names. You’ll see info on health clearances. You’ll see links to the AKC standard and the FCI standard.

And what’s the best you can post on your parent’s site?

A pix of a grossly oversized Rottie sitting in front of a boy. A pix of a woman with two Rotties mating in a basement. A pix of girl smoking a cigarette holding a Pom.

Based on what you see in these sites vs. your site, you tell me what type of breeding establishment your parents run.

I suggest you stop posting dribble and start learning what real Rottie breeders do. You’ve come to a place full of people who know what they’re doing. Now is your opportunity to stop defending the poor practices of your parents, and start thinking and learning things for yourself.

Family loyalty is a fine thing.

Perpetuating family ignorance is not.

[rottcrazed]

I have 4 dogs in my home and I find it hard to divide my time equally among them. The two I show and train do get a lot of my attention and time since they are in training, the older 2 get lovin' on the couch.

I highly doubt 50 adult dogs get adequate daily attention from one person - even 5 people. Maybe a team of 40 could do it, but not one person.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are, it is a duck ......

Kristi