Working lines

[groupieindenial]

I posted a reply on R2D2's thread on pedigrees, and somehow it got deleted, since I was replying to his question on good working lines.

I appreciate all the advice. Do any of you concur on a good quality working rottweiler that is currently working in the U.S.? I'm interested in researching the pedigree of any recommended dogs so I can continue to learn as the rottweiler breed is somewhat new to me.

Thanks

SOOooo in response to R2D2's question on good working lines, I'd like some feedback on offsprings out of Andro v.d. Lauterbrucke (Akin's brother). And does anyone know the current status of Akino? I thought if I were to get another puppy, I would like something out of this type of pedigree, but matched with a good pedigree from a female.

[Skip]

Have you had a dog from strong working lines before? The reason I ask is because I see a lot of people ask about good working line dogs, but they end up never working them. Personally, I think that's one of the reasons the breed has been watered down a lot. A lot of breeders don't consider the working side as much, because fewer and fewer people ever work them in the US. The USRC Schutzhund NATIONALS only had a handful of rotts entered.

[dmoniz]

My new pup, now 9 months old is by Andro. So far I am very happy. My helper is also impressed with him so far. He has a nice, firm, calm grip. He doesn't shy away from stick hits (not actually getting hit yet, just close) and he has a great nose (although that may be from the mother's side, S&R lines). I don't think he is going to be very large, he is about 85 pounds now and almost 25 inches. He doesn't eat a lot, but has great food drive for treats and works for praise almost as well as he does for food.

[dogsbydoug]

Our almost 7 month old girlie is a grand-daughter to Akino. So far, we're thrilled with her, and I know the owners of our pups littermates are happy with their pups as well.

I've heard good things about Andro as well as Akino.

[IJF1]

Andro and Akino are both nice dogs.

Obviously the bitch is critical, but Andro has produced Pascha vom Scheldetal who was IFR Champion in 2006.

[groupieindenial]

Originally Posted by Skip

Have you had a dog from strong working lines before? The reason I ask is because I see a lot of people ask about good working line dogs, but they end up never working them. Personally, I think that's one of the reasons the breed has been watered down a lot.

Yeah, my Vegas comes from decent working lines, well his sire's side, the dam I can't find anything of value there. We've been doing schutzhund for the past 2 years. I want another working Rott to raise, so by the time he's 6, and pushing it, I want another pup to work, that I raised. I think raising them is so important, but few take the time to raise one from 8 weeks. So they get a young dog that you don't know WHAT they've done, and usually problems come with that. Another problem with getting a pup so young, is sometimes what you think you see in them at 8 weeks, doesn't turn out.

[QUOTE=

[groupieindenial]

Originally Posted by Skip

I see a lot of people ask about good working line dogs, but they end up never working them. Personally, I think that's one of the reasons the breed has been watered down a lot. A lot of breeders don't consider the working side as much, because fewer and fewer people ever work them in the US. The USRC Schutzhund NATIONALS only had a handful of rotts entered.

I think because there are fewer breeders, and they are all trying to accomplish too much. How come field dogs (gun dogs) there are show breeders and sport breeders? With rotts you have breeders claiming CH on their dogs, and then say thay have strong working drives, but they lack in them. We've got these soft dogs, that can't handle the pressure in SCH, but are more and more fear aggressive? Not good at all for the breed. Its like people are doing SCH with soft temprament dogs, and ruining them too often. Market them as working dogs cuz they try and do some work with them, but the lineage truly does not have it. Some "say" they do, but then they havn't put a single title on a dog, and don't belong to a club. SOOO, they hang on the thread that somewhere down their lines they had some working dogs. Unless its within 2 generations (sire and grandsire) it doesn't count in my opinion. Or they go as far as putting a BH on a dam, and viola she's now a working dog. I'd like to see more sustanance with bitches being bred. There are only a handful of people on RDN doing SCH, and how many are breeding those dogs?? Not I, cuz my dog's got SAS and is neutered.


So In your opinion, what do offsprings get from the dam and how much temp do tehy get from the sire? I just don't see why bitches are not treated as important as stud dogs.

[groupieindenial]

Originally Posted by IJF1

Andro and Akino are both nice dogs.

Obviously the bitch is critical, but Andro has produced Pascha vom Scheldetal who was IFR Champion in 2006.

From what I can see, Akino produced lots of nice offsprings, but I don't see that he's got the Korung, but Andro does. And I know Andro is in California. Where's AKINO?

(Sorry if I'm repeating myself, and gramatical errors, I'm having difficulties posting 2day).

Another thing to add what Skip said about people not working their working line Rotts, is maybe why we have bites and problem dogs. These dogs are bored, and need more structure than the pet/show ones. I knew what I was getting into when I got my pup, and it was still almost too much dog for me. NOW I know why, because he's got some serious drive you don't see in Rotts anymore. But what did I know at the time?

[EliDogInTraining]

Some very good points have been made in this thread. I would say that 75%+ breeders claim this xyz litter will be working potential and out of that 75% probably less than 10% have ever actually titled a dog past a BH. Almost every single person claims my helper says my dog bites like an alligator yet you never see their name in USA or DVG trialing and qualifying. Sorry folks but until you actually step on the field at a legitimate trial and a passing score goes in your book, everything is speculative. By legitimate I mean without "Sanata Claus" judges and helpers who do correct work. Something else people need to remember, schutzhund is a 3 phase sport.

[groupieindenial]

Originally Posted by EliDogInTraining

Almost every single person claims my helper says my dog bites like an alligator yet you never see their name in USA or DVG trialing and qualifying. Sorry folks but until you actually step on the field at a legitimate trial and a passing score goes in your book, everything is speculative. By legitimate I mean without "Sanata Claus" judges and helpers who do correct work. Something else people need to remember, schutzhund is a 3 phase sport.

You know, I watched some video footage of the Deutsche Meisterschaft last year, and I did not see one single Rottweiler, yet I had a breeder tell me that 2 of her male's offsrping were at teh meisterschaft. SO I looked up last year's roster, and not a single Rott qualified to compete. Disgusting, and totally embarrasing for the breed. Am I wrong? I couldn't find a rott listed of the 80 or so listed.

[dmoniz]

I asked Joel last night how many Andro pups he has worked besides Cain and he said quite a few. He has also worked Andro a few times. I sked his overall opinion and he said very nice. They have great grips and are all very clear.

On the other line of this thread. When he was helping me find a puppy his advice was to make sure every male in the pedigree had a Sch III and the females should at least have a Sch I. As it turns out Cain's dam doesn't have a Sch I, but Joel had worked her himself and she took part in a protection tournament where she scored very highly with nice comments from both Joel and the Judge.

[EliDogInTraining]

There wasn't any Rotties at the DHV-DM last year. The VDH-DM had 1 that actually trialed. There was 1 entered in the FCI IPO WM.

[IJF1]

Originally Posted by groupieindenial

You know, I watched some video footage of the Deutsche Meisterschaft last year, and I did not see one single Rottweiler, yet I had a breeder tell me that 2 of her male's offsrping were at teh meisterschaft. SO I looked up last year's roster, and not a single Rott qualified to compete. Disgusting, and totally embarrasing for the breed. Am I wrong? I couldn't find a rott listed of the 80 or so listed.

I suspect the breeder you mention was talking about the ADRK DM!

As for Rotts competing in all breed events, fact of the matter is that top Schutzhund competitors are unlikely to choose Rottweilers - why make life harder than it needs to be???

[maracana]

Hi.

Look at this site from Germany Rottie's.

http://www.adrk.de/index_e.html

Its not to blame the Rottie that they are not on the overal championships.
German Sheperds are ruling that item very much, for one Rottie there are 50 Sheperds in training, but for me personaly, Rottie is the best.

Peter.

[dogsbydoug]

Originally Posted by groupieindenial

From what I can see, Akino produced lots of nice offsprings, but I don't see that he's got the Korung, but Andro does. And I know Andro is in California. Where's AKINO?

Edited because I didn't meet Akino, I met the sire of our pups litter, Carlos von den Gohen Holen....my mistake!! SORRY!

Everything I've seen on Akino says he is/was in California....