Opinions

[Grumbler]

Hello,

I am currently researching working dogs; Shutzhund and Breed Standard testing.

My post is geared towards two questions.

1. What dogs are considered the top working dogs both in the USA and International? I know this is a very vague question since there are many criteria to win the numerous titles available.
2. What top working dogs have a positive prodgeny record?

I Look forward to your opinion.

Reminder, we are not going to discuss kennels or breeders.

Happy New Year!
Grumbler

[Rottlva]

I would start your search with production awards. See who is producing titled offspring, and how often.

As for working dogs, are you implying Schutzund? I can't help you there, but if you are looking for AKC stats, you can go to the ARC's site and see who one awards in each venue for having the greatest # of points.

[BostonRott]

"Top working dog" means nothing, but is only defined by the person with whom you're speaking. Many high scoring dogs are considered "prey monsters" who are not "real." Many of the truly serious dogs don't always score high in protection points b/c of being dirty. So what is the criteria? This is something you must decide for yourself.

Breed testing.....well, I used to think that all breed tests were great. Now that I've seen so many of the games that go on, I would say: know the judge and the hosting club. There are some breed tests that I put very little faith in, others that I know are completely above-board.

If you're looking to get a dog for the work, you should also strongly consider health. Now, within a certain US club, many feel that health testing is simply a PITA that must be done to meet breeding regulations. No attention is paid to cardiac status within the line, longevity of the line, etc. If you're going to invest a lot of time and effort in a dog, don't you want a dog with sound health and hopefully a long career?

Ask about hips, elbows, and hearts. Find out what the parents and grand-parents died of, and how old they were when they died. Find out what the heretibility of the final disorder is.

Going back to the working question, look at the offspring out of a dog. Are they also titling? Are they in homes where they will be worked?

Some people like a highly reactive dog, as they tend to be flashy crowd-pleasers. Others like a dog who is much more staid in it's work.

You need to decide what YOU want in your dog, and then start searching that out. Collecting public opinions of vague superlatives won't get you very far.

[TrishB]

I would suggest that you find a mentor or several breeders that are willing to share their experiences and opinions with you. As they get to know you, and you them, you'll be able to find out what best matches what you are looking for.

I found my dog due to a network of breeders. I was VERY LUCKY to have been referred without even knowing that it was going on (they wanted to be sure that I got a puppy that was "in the family"). Since then, my network has expanded further and I consider myself truly lucky. To that end, I'm still learning! And learning how little I know as well.

What you're looking for isn't going to be answered by a forum on the internet. I wish it could!

When you're looking at statistics, you don't have the proper perspective. Sure that dog is #1, but how many times was it entered? If a dog is being campaigned out the wazoo, does that make it better than the other dog that isn't shown as often, but beats the #1 dog when they meet? Working dogs are the same. Are they #1 due to the quality of their work or due to the massive quantity that they're entered? Of course, this isn't to say that the current #1 dogs aren't worthy, they probably are! But there's so much more to know than just the simple numbers.

You also need to be honest about why you're looking for a dog and what your intentions are for it. i.e. are you looking for a pet that you can show and compete with? are you looking for the next #1 dog? are you looking to try to establish a kennel and breeding program? The intent will also change your choices.

It's great if you get a lovely dog and can win in whatever with him / her. But if their lines are flooding the market and gene pool, is there really much of an advantage to having them for a breeding program?

Example: My dog is from a Ponchas Bite The Bullet line breeding. "Bull" was highly used so there are many dogs with his lines available. So if I was going to breed, I'd have to be sure that my dog was of the highest of quality to justify his being bred. Because there are many others out there with the same genes, that could be better examples (and in fact there is) than my boy. So you have to take that into consideration.

Again - it's a need for a mentor, time and commitment. This isn't something that you can just walk in, buy a dog and be #1 in everything that you want. You'll probably go through a few dogs before you get a good idea of what your true expectations are. I love my dog, he's been one of the best decisions I've made. However having him, raising him, training him, has reset my expectations and goals higher and differently than they had been. Each dog will change them as I learn more. They will with you too.

Sorry, but there are no short cuts or one line answers to the questions you're asking.