Genetics

[Hackel]

I just found this statement on a Rottweiler website...

"I feel that it is of the utmost importance that you understand that the female carries 65% of the genes in a breeding and the male only 35%, this is why you should obtain puppies from the best females available."

Now, can anyone please explain to me how someone can come to this conclusion???

Thanks...



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Von Der Ehrenwache Kennels
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/5378/
***Working dogs are "bred" and rarely "made"***
ICQ Chatroom - &Rottweilers (#14767753)

[frontierrots]

Stupidity http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

Never heard that one. All the genetics experts I've talked to say 50/50

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Diane
Frontier Rottweilers & Shiba Inu
www.frontierrots.com

[Hackel]

My thoughts exactly Diane! LOL http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

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Von Der Ehrenwache Kennels
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/5378/
***Working dogs are "bred" and rarely "made"***
ICQ Chatroom - &Rottweilers (#14767753)

[Maggie]

Well thats very interesting. The latest I heard from the gene people was 60/40 to the bitch. But hey,what about the extremely line bred dog,being bred over the outcross bitch?????? I wonder what they would say to that. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

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Maggie Murray
Rottweiler Specialist Judge
New Zealand

[Tony4Rotts]

I think i've been to that website before.
Very interesting... well it would be nice to know if there are any statistics on such a statement! 65/35, 50/50, 70/30, 60/40...ect

[belgium]

and the grandparents , do they count or not, if not why do i examin these pedigrees for ages before using a dog

[Orville Story]

Different Bitches will have different effects, this is a thought on Brood Bitches by Patricia Craige's in her book "Born to Win Breed to Suceed". She gives a good amount of documentations to back up these ideals:

"Great foundation (key) bithces are usually in possession of two powerful X chromosomes.
At the time of the mating the female's eggs all carry one X chromosome. Approximately one-half of the sire's sperm will cary the Y chromosome, and the other half will carry the X. Unlike other genetic information the passage of the X chromosome from the sire can be determined by whether the resulting puppy is a dog or bitch, thus allowing breeders to structure pedigrees in pursuit of excellent brood bitches. Every daughter of an outstanding brood bitch sire receives the same X chromosome from her sire. This is the only one he has to give. If the X his daughters receive from their dam is as good as that from the outstanding brood bitch sire, there is a strong likelihood she will become a good producer. In a tail female line the sires have the opportunity to strengthen the line if the had excellent dams, or to weaken if the did not. Because so much genetic information is carried on the X chromosome, the dam of the sire you plan to use should be as important to you as the bitch you plan to breed to him. This is all the more meanighful to a small breeding program built on quality, not quantity.
Keep in mind that the sire of the brood bitch gave her his dam's X chromosome. From her own dam she either received the X chromosome of her maternal grandsire's dam or that of her dam's dam. The brood bitch puts her characteristics back to good use and widespread use through her sons. The outstanding sire of brood bitches will have daughters whose sons excel at stud." PP 106

Breeding is too complex to say 65/35%. However, having a top quality "brood bitch", a bitch that can pass on excellent genes, is where a breeding program is founded. If someone has a top bitch they can pick and choose the right male for her line. If someone has a good bitch they must choose the best male to fix her puppies. In one case it might be 65/35, in the other it might be 50/50.

[Eve]

That's interesting, about looking at the dam of the sire. Because my foundation bitch, Olga von Kaufman, looked just like her paternal grandmother, Cendy vom Siedlerpfad. Funny thing is, the wonderful Gina von der Teufelsbrucke, owned by Mike and Mimi Prisco, also looks like her paternal grandmother, the very same Cendy vom Siedlerpfad. Matter of fact, you can see that stamp in just about all the M vom Siedlerpfad offspring. Very strong bitch.

[German Vanegas]

Hackel,
I believe your initial inquiry has to do with the fact that a fine specimen of a bitch, with a sound stable temperament and working abilities, it is instrumental in what the offsprrings from a litter will come up to be in learned behaviour. There are vital and essential learning and interactive experiences that the dam will transmitt to the litter, which will imprint behavioral patterns on the puppies, during that critical 8 weeks period after whelping. For instance, if you have a weak-nerved bitch, in all probabilities the pups will learn such undesirable behavior. A good bitch is the foundation of stock lines... in my humble opinion.

[Baren]

Hackel, I know that website very well and the person who wrote it. It must be either vom Eschenhagen Rottweilers or vom Schlesingen Blute Rottweilers By Louie Nappi right? He supports this fact a lot and sais that this it 's because its the mother carries the puppies 2 months in her. He sais in his page that too many people make the mistake of buying a puppy based on the sire only and not on the dam and that the result is a mediocre puppy at most. I agree with this. I think that the dam may have a slightly greater influence on the puppies in character because she lives the first stage of their life with them but I disagree that there is such a great difference and I dont think that this is standard. I believe that overall it is 50/50 but some puppies may take from the sire, some from the dam. This is what I personaly think.

[rottiholt]

Also, in taking a Horse Animal & Beef Husbuntry class's at Sierra College (Rocklin Ca.) I learned when breeding the female gives 80% & the male 20% Now this was back in late 70's earlie 80's so alot may have changed since then.I really personality can't get passed the 50~50% thing myself. This is just my feelings tho. I am open for learning new thing's.

I have a question & it may not be for this forum.
I have a 4 month old female puppy. Her mom is from my line & her dad is:Tornatores Carbine vom Wotan. His mom is Cessy von der Weilerei. 99% of the time I know everyone in the pedigree of my dog's but I can't find a
thing on her!!!! It is almost like she did not even exhist or something. Everyone knows her sire Gringo Vom Sashen altho I can't find any pictures of him around. I know this is no biggie to most people but it really bug's me ALOT.
Has anyone out there seen Cessy at a show or a kennel etc? Whould anyone know where I could HOPEFULLY find 1 picture of her??? I would gladly pay for it.
Thank you all for helping me & listening.
P.S. is anyone else out there as crazy as I
am about picture's & pedigree's or is this just a isolated case?? :-)
Also, in taking a Horse Animal & Beef Husbuntry class's at Sierra College (Rocklin Ca.) I learned when breeding the female gives 80% & the male 20% Now this was back in late 70's earlie 80's so alot may have changed since then.I really personality can't get passed the 50~50% thing myself. This is just my feelings tho. I am open for learning new thing's.

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[This message has been edited by Moderator (edited March 31, 1999).]

[Liz]

"it 's because its the mother carries the puppies 2 months in her."

Carrying the puppies has nothing to do with the genetic material contributed.

Technically speaking sire and dam contribute 50% each of the genetic material. Yes, some traits may be stronger, yes, some traits may double up, yes, the bitch has more of an influence on temperament because she raises the puppies, but in point of fact, each parent contributes 50% of genetic material, no more, no less.

While Mr. Nappi's theory that the dam has a greater influence on the puppies and should therefore deserve greater consideration than the sire is correct in most cases, his genetic statement is incorrect.

Liz

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www.inxpress.net/~harkon/
harkon@inxpress.net

[Hackel]

Exactly Liz! While I will agree with the statement that the bitch has more influence of the mental ddevelopment of the pups simply because she rears them....the statement that I quoted in my initial post was referring to the genetic percentage that the bitch passes on to her offspring.

I am fairly certain that genetically, where there is sexual reproduction...both parents contribute 50/50 to the resulting offspring.

Baren I think Nappi was referring to the genetic percentages...in which case, if he still thinks that his statement is correct...I would like to see the scientific evidence to prove that a bitch provides 65% of the genes.

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Von Der Ehrenwache Kennels
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***Working dogs are "bred" and rarely "made"***
ICQ Chatroom - &Rottweilers (#14767753)




[This message has been edited by Hackel (edited March 31, 1999).]

[German Vanegas]

Genetically speaking 50/50 sounds scientifically correct. However, behavioral imprinting comes from the bith interaction with the litter during the critical 8 weeks period after whelping.