How to tell when a breeder is lying or is of poor quality

[BostonRott]

Seems like many people are taken by flashy websites and glitzy promotion of dogs. Others seem to think that if they spend $800 or more on a dog, that the dog MUST be of quality. And then there are people who think that if a breeder tells them a dog is show quality, that it is.

Well guess what........there's a sucker born every minute.

A) Price guarantees you nothing.

B) If a breeder is going to tell you that a puppy is show quality, they'd best have the experience to back up that opinion. What dogs have they shown, in what venues, and how have they done with them? What is their list of accomplishments?

C) It's easy to throw money at websites and advertisements. Doesn't mean a thing when it comes to the quality of dog that you buy. A certain well known puppy mill in Kimberton, PA has a lovely website, but they should be paying YOU to take one of their dogs.

So.....

When looking into a breeder or breeding, do your research. Don't believe all that you're "told." Or all that a website "says."

Dogs in America do not have HD- or ED- ratings (with very few exceptions). Any breeder who lists an American bred dog as HD- ED- better be able to tell you EXACTLY where they got that rating from, because it is NOT an OFA rating. To legitimately have such a claim, a dog needs to have been xrayed in a foreign country, with their xrays then submitted to that country's examining body.

Take the time to look the dog up on the OFA website. Check it both by name, and by AKC registration number. If you can not find the dog online, then it does NOT have a hip or elbow rating done in this country. If the dog was bred and born here, that's inexcusable for breeding stock.

The American Rottweiler Club (THE parent club for the Rottweiler in the US, and the only one recognized outside the US) requires ALL imports who arrive in the US with a foreign hip rating to re-do the hips/elbows within 6mos of arrival here. After such a time, if the dog is bred and the owner is a member of ARC (a Code of Ethics club), they will be disciplined.

Why do you think the ARC requires re-xray of dogs with foreign ratings? Think it might be because not all registries or xray readings are "above board?" Food for thought.

A good breeder should interview you and find out what your life is like, your home and what will be done with the puppy. Without this information, how can they assure that they have a puppy that will fit your life situation, never mind deciding which particular puppy best fits your home?

A good breeder will not sell two puppies to one home, or "give" you a puppy.

A good breeder will guarantee the health of their puppy, via a written contract. Such a contract should cover health aspects for ALL puppies, not just "show" dogs. A real health guarantee will not require you to return your puppy if it has a problem. A real health guarantee does not expire at some point in the life of the dog. A real health guarantee does not promise another puppy as a way to "solve" the problem of the first pup having health issues. What good does another puppy from the same bloodlines do you? It simply increases your chances at another defective puppy.

When researching a breeder, don't just ask to see copies of health certificates, ask for the registration numbers of the dog and take the time to research them yourself. The website for OFA is: http://www.offa.org If the dog is supposedly titled with AKC titles, look the dog up on the AKC website (http://www.akc.org) Go to the Store and then look up the points progression on the dog. You can search by name or AKC number. If the dog supposedly has SchH/VPG/IPO titles, ask for copies of the scorebook.

Some people well tell you anything to sell their puppies, and many know just the right things to say. A breeder who is truthful in what they say/offer should not be in the LEAST offended by someone wanting to double-check titles and health certs.

[shybird]

Very nice post Gretchen. Just in time for all those Christmas Puppy Buyers. Would you mind if I printed this out for the puppy buyers I meet?

[BostonRott]

Help yourself!

[Tasha Turtle]

That is awesome. I always wondered when looking at all the websites how to tell what is genuine and what is not. Thank you.

[Patty1231]

Is there anyway that can be made a pop-up for anytime someone does a search for 'rottweiler puppies'??

[rottcrazed]

AWESOME post - that summarizes it all I think!

One of my puppy buyers has a bit of a nosy neighbor who breeds and shows Goldens. She gave Cindy a LIST of questions to ask me when we were discussing co-owning one of the bitch puppies out of my litter.

She also told Cindy that out of her litters, she is LUCKY to have one show quality puppy, so how could I POSSIBLY have 2 show quality females?

When I was asked that, I told her, I likely would not be able to guarantee that myself as I am a novice when it comes to breeding and assessing litters - which is why I had my litter assessed twice for conformation and workability. Once by an experienced Rottweiler person and once by my own trainer.

PS - The puppy this couple co-owns with me went to her first show 2 weeks ago and earned 5 points towards her Canadian Championship winning WB/BOW/BPIB two of the three days shown, losing to her sister (our pup) on the Saturday .... yep, 2 show quality female!!!

So, in summary of my blithering, ask a breeder you are interested in if they have anyone else (with some experience, not just their neighbor) look at the litter for an UNBIASED opinion of the puppies' conformation and workability.

Kristi

[sophie's-mom]

B) If a breeder is going to tell you that a puppy is show quality, they'd best have the experience to back up that opinion. What dogs have they shown, in what venues, and how have they done with them? What is their list of accomplishments?

Just to add to this.......just because someone has 8 dogs and all 8 of those dogs have been V rated.......consider WHEN was the last time they were "V" rated?? Also, did THIS breeder show this dog or did THIS breeder BUY this dog this way and then it just became a puppy maker.

On that SAME note........if the dog has been bought and sold more than once.........ask WHY! Breeders don't sell their GOOD stock. Stuff they want to CONTINUE in their lines.

Am I off base on this???

[Bucky's Mom]

Great post - a LOT of people think price equates with quality.

[hcelsa]

Excellent post Gretchen! You summarized this information very well (mind if I save this as one more thing to share with those that email asking about how to find a puppy?), and made some marvelous points .

Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

[BostonRott]

Thank you! And of course, all are welcome to share it with whomever they feel may benefit.

[denverday]

I learned from this site a short time ago about the price thing.....Then today I saw an ad in the paper for Westie pups.....800 w/o papers 2000 w/ full reg...because of all of your info had I actually been looking for a puppy I would have know that this was a major Red Flag...

Your post says it all.
Thank you for people like you

[JoJo]

Great post Gretchen. With this type of information a person can be for-warned and be well armed!

I vote to make this a sticky!

JoJo

[LORHEL]

Yes, I vote for this to be a sticky too. Excellent advice for anyone considering purchasing a puppy.

[fbkeays]

I would also listen to your gut instincts too.
If the bitch had been bred before and the puppies are old enough to be OFA'd and only a small percentage are in the OFA database- Ask WHY! A breeder should be interested in getting as many of the puppies she/he produces OFA'd so that she knows what the line produces. Just thinking that one or two pups from a litter of 10-12 pups is fine should be a red flag.
A breeder shouldn't be offended when you ask questions of the other dogs that they have produced for health, conformation and performance. They should have an answer on why they are breeding these two dogs together. They should have a goal, other then make puppies to make some $$$.

[rutylr]

[quote=BostonRott]


A good breeder will not sell two puppies to one home, or "give" you a puppy.




I agree with the whole post ,except the give you a puppy.I have given puppies to people and I have two people on the puppy list who think they are buying a puppy,but I am giving both of them one.It is more important that the puppy be in great homes (to me) then making the money from the sale.
I know alot of people in different breeds who also give people puppies.

Donna