Tailed puppies

[BostonRott]

What are people's thoughts on owning/buying a tailed puppy?

The ADRK is planning to set up a Landesgruppe (LG) here in the US, and members would have to follow the ADRK rules....including no docking of pups.

I myself have no problems w/ a tailed Rott, for to me, they are far more than just a tail. However, I suspect that were one to breed a litter, it would be tough to find homes for the puppies, especially w/ the very anti-tail sentiments that emnate from the majority of AKC show people and leaders of the ARC including Joan Klem.

Thoughts?

[Carol Burke]

It would not bother me to have a tailed puppy, except that I show in AKC, therefore I will continue to dock unless the AKC standard changes. I think you made a good point about it being difficult to place tailed puppies.

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Carol
Darrlburg Rottweilers

[Nancy Estes]

The thought just occurred to me that this would be unfortunate if it turned into another "fad" for BYB's to cash in on. I'm not blaming anyone or any organization here but I see the potential for another of those "German vs. American" selling tactics. Considering that the average pet buying public is not real up on standards in different countries, a lot of them would easily fall into this trap - "Oh, these are German puppies because they have their tails." It's amazing how BYB's pick up on things that will help them sell puppies .

Nancy

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von Dorow Rottweilers

[czechrott]

For the record, I do not like Rotties with tails. It brings to mind a quote in the Freeman book about the Roman General who first cut the tail off the dog. I'm paraphrasing, but it was about the General worrying about spies. He cut the tail off of the "butcher dog", and them exclaimed "Let them see this [madness], and let them have nothing further to do with me" The story could be fable, but it reminds me of the history of the breed.

This was not the ADRK's idea. The legislation was passed in Germany regarding ANY cosmetic surgery as being cruel & unnecessary. How about the poor Doberman ? Long ears & a tail.....Yech! YMO

[Nani's Mom]

I like tails! I've always liked to watch the wag of a happy puppy's tail. I agree with the docking ban. The docking of tails in the present is done purely for cosmetic reasons. Tails used to be docked for a purpose, for the working dog who was constantly getting his tail caught in the big wooden wheels of carts he would pull. Now, in the present, most dogs are bought for the purpose of a companion, not to pull a cart and work for his master. The dog was born with a tail and ears, why alter him when the tail and ears pose no threat? Many people have said that a tail is a hazard and that many dogs break their tails by getting them caught in a door, or banging them too hard against a sharp corner. But many dogs also break their legs by crashing to hard into a wall, slipping on a slippery floor, accidently getting stepped on or slammed in a door. A tail can get in the way but so can other parts of the dog.

So to answer your question BostonRott I would be very happy to own/purchase a Rottie with a long wagging tail!

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Heather
Volunteer with Aloha Spirit Rottweiler Rescue
http://www.crosswinds.net/~hawaiirotts/

[frontierrots]

Boston Rott has a valid point about tailed pups being harder to place.
I work with rescue and pups/dogs with tails RARELY get applications. They eventually get placed but it takes a long time.

Probably once the LG is set up here, IF you had lines other members liked you could-hopefully- just sell pups to ther members. But you will still have pet pups to place.

I really think unless and until the AKC& ARC vote to allow both docked and undocked dogs to be shown it is rediculous to even start a club that won't allow a docked tail to be shown

I will never own a tailed rott myself. The docked tail is part of what makes the breed look like a rottweiler and part of what attracted me to the breed many years ago

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Diane
Frontier Rottweilers & Shiba Inu and
Volunteer with NorthEast Rottweiler Rescue & Referral http://www.rottrescue.org

[BostonRott]

Being a person who loves to work their dogs, I think the tails will definitely have benefits: more balanced movement and better stopping from high speeds, as well as better ability to "steer" around turns at high speeds (i.e. the blind search).

In talking with people who have imported tailed pups, they ALL say that the tail makes it far easier to read the dog, and they all do love their tailed pups. I know of several who were planning to dock the tails and then decided not to, one of whom is VERY into AKC conformation and is a prominant handler.

I agree very much with Dianne, that it will be the pet pups who are hardest to place, and I know that sales and breeding have dropped dramatically in Germany for this reason. It's to the point over there where if you aren't breeding a "big name show dog" you have a harder time placing pups. I do wonder though as people get used to the tails, if this will all turn around.

As to the reasons for the LG starting, there are many ADRK members over here, and this would give people the opportunity to earn titles (including breed tests and Körungs) that would be recognized in Germany.

Nancy, very interesting point about the BYB's and millers leaving tails on to promote their "German dogs." Guess we'll just have to do even more education on all that a well bred dog is and "comes with" including his Ahnentafel (pedigree) and scorebook. ;-)

[Jay]

Although at this point my opinion may be biased, Since my tailed ones are about 19mos old now,but there really is benefit to having a tail!! The balance, agility, and reading of the dog does truly increase and it definitely does not take long to get used to the tail, just yesterday I received compliments on the tail of my young male, which is a turn around from usual QUESTIONS as to why does he have a tail???
I am definitely in favor of a ADRK/LG and honestly believe that the anti-tail issue will come to pass. IN 5 years this will be the "norm" in MOST parts of the world.

[Orville Story]

I don't like the tails at all.

Just as a Marine wears a flat top, the Rottweiler should have a docked tail. It would not change the Marine one bit if his hair was shoulder length, but it would change his appearence. I realize that the docking of the tail is done for cosmetic reasons. But cosmetic reasons do play a big role in our society. The docked tail on a dog says, "Guard dog, strength, power, purpose". It says these things to our subconcious.

I will quit docking tails when the US Marines quit having flat tops. I apperciate the look of strength in both.

As far as the tail making the dog more balanced and being able to corner better.
That is ADRK hype. A tail does help the sleeker speedesters such as Greyhounds, but will have very little effect on a frame built for power. If you want a more balanced faster Rottie then breed for lighter bone, longer shoulders with greater angulation, and smaller fronts. The rudder theory holds no water on a dog with the massive front that a Rottie carries. How much better could a bulldog corner if he had a tail?

[BostonRott]

Orville,

I respectfully totally disagree with your assessments of tails and use in movement. Ever attended a Chris Zink seminar? She is both a DVM and a PhD who is also very into jumping and agility.

Go to her seminars, watch her tapes. You will see the difference a tail makes in jumping, and in steering in the air, to start propelling a dog in a new direction. I know for a fact that is used this way on the ground too.

I worked at a vet for 4yrs. If we had to amputate a tail from either a cat or a dog, they were completely screwed up in terms of balance and jumping for several days after the amputation. Our rule of thumb was that cats couldn't go home until they could jump up onto our counter top, without going kersmack into the cabinets below. The point being: animals DO use their tails A LOT for both balance and steering, and this is blatantly obvious when that tail is later removed.

It is not ADRK hype, it is simple physiology. Ever watched a tailed dog doing a rocket recall? They use that tail to slow down more efficiently.....it starts to spin like a windmill, very notably in GSDs.

[Carol Burke]

Orville, I also have to disagree with your opinion on tails. And I do like the look of the docked tail, but tails do help with balance and movement. I had GSDs years ago when they were built more like Rotties, before the angulation craze started, and you could watch them use their tails just like rudders in cornering. I also believe that many croup faults are hidden because with a docked tail we do not see the extension of the croup. All the dogs you see in the ring today with tails sticking up, which is not correct, would have gay tails if their tails were present.

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Carol
Darrlburg Rottweilers

[Orville Story]

The hype is not that it makes a difference, but the degree. Of course it will make some degree differnce, but on a Rottie the difference insignificant. For example if we took 100 tailed Rotties and 100 docked Rotties to a Greyhound dog track how much faster would the tailed Rotties be?

As for amputations sure when an animal has learned to walk using a tail for balance then he will be greatly effected at the loss.
But to claim that Rottie with tails have more balance than Rottie docked at three days old is bull.

A spoiler works wonders for a sports car, but has little effect on a RV. While it might help the Suburband to some degree, it will not have the same effect as it will on the Mustang.

Will the Rottie now become as fast as a Sheperd because he has a natural tail? Will the Rottie be able to jump as high as a Malinois because he has a tail?

If the ADRK likes the tail fine, but to try to sale the ideal that a tail improves speed, balance and agility to any significant degree is only hype. "New and Improved" type hype.

[WorkinDogz]

That tail does take some gettin' used to....and I'm not a real fan of a Rottie having a tail...but...when push comes to shove...having a tail won't be the deciding factor in me not getting that next working pup

I think tailed Rotties are easier for me to accept since I already have coffee-table-clearing German Shepherds and an Am Staff that uses her tail as a weapon against your leg. So what's one more tail!

[Rudi]

Personally, I have seen tailed Rotts and I don't like the look. However, some people do. I read in a book that in Denmark, the docking of any dogs tail is banned. Why, I don't know but it is.

It would be very difficult to place a tailed Rott because there's not really a large demand for tailed Rotts. Of course, each person has its own preference.

[BigBear]

I like Orville's response also....

I noticed that agility as referenced when talking about tails... but how big is agility in Germany?
Im guessing, and dont have facts to back it up, that SchH would be the number one dog sport in Germany... and dont see where the tail or not would have to much effect on SchH...
The obedience is done on a paced scale with control being a factor... In the past I have seen posts regarding others dogs tracking fast and the suggested respose was to slow the dogs pace... and for the protection phase... I dont see where having the tail would effect it much either... maybe help with steering in the air when they are engaging in a bite midair. We all know that the rottweiler can catch a agitator with or without his tail... and I dont think his tail plays much role in his balance to do so... they have been doing fine from what I have seen in the past...

If im wrong on any of this... I will glady admit my wrongness and stand corrected!

Bear