born with no tail

[brodie]

I have a 6 year old bitch that was docked and has just had a litter to a four year old male (Brutus) that has a naturally short tail, I have been told this is a German breed and is common but I havent seen it before (I'm no expert) the bitch (Zelda) had 11 pups (6 f 5 m) and only two have tails, one of each. Is this normal? or have I got a wierd cross thing going on?
Any help appreciated
Max

[frontierrots]

It is no longer common for pups to be born tailless though it does happen. One other member of this board had a litter of mostly tailless too. Would be interesting to see if the adults have any ancestors in common.

There is a well respected breeder here in the US who owned a male that sired a large percentage of tailess pups also

I personally would be interested in a copy of the litter's pedigree

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Diane
Frontier Rottweilers & Shiba Inu
www.frontierrots.com

[Baren]

I have heard of rottweilers born without at tail to.

That is an interesting issue LisaS. Would the judge ask the handler if the tail was natural? I think it would be a dissadvantage anyway. So I dont think there will be many in a few years. Diane said there are rare now.

brodie, The breed is the same! Do you mean Brutus vom Hermachmiede?

[rottie_mama]

It seems to me that being born tailless would be a desirable trait here in the U.S. because of the European countries. If the tails are naturally bobbed then we need not worry about tail docking bans. Are there any U.S. breeders that are focused on breeding for this trait so that it becomes more prevalent? I know that other show quality characteristics are much more important than being born tailless, but this seems like an interesting experiment.

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Rachel aka rottie_mama
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/7900



[This message has been edited by rottie_mama (edited July 21, 1999).]

[brodie]

In Reply to Barren
Im the third owner of the male (Brutus) I got him from a guy that was being transferred (through work) to another state and would be living in a high rise Apartment.
All he could tell me was that the original owner, from (Darwin Northen Territory Australia) got the dog from Germany, he had the papers and lost them. The second owner of the dog only took him because the first owner would beat him. Brutus was very timid when we got him, but is now starting to walk with his head held high (just needed some TLC) another strange thing about Brutus is his eyes. They are a dull green all over, making him look blind, thats until the sun or light hits his eyes then they glow like emerald. The kids in the street call him (devil dog) I think he's beautiful.
The female (Zelda) was brought 6 years ago without papers because someone brought her for me (as a gift) and it cost more to get the papers with the dog. I also had no intention of breeding her. So I cant really tell you anything about the history of either dog.
Cheers Max

[LisaS]

Since it is apparently not unheard of for Rotts to be born without tails, I am wondering what the status is of a naturallly tail-less dog in the European countries where docking is now prohibited ? Would this be considered a disqualifying trait under that standard, or would it be considered "in the natural state" and therefore acceptable?

[Erik Engeland]

It is very rare that a rottweiler is born without a tail, but if it does, it is allowed to show in scandinavia. The dog is not docked. In most cases it is docked illegally. Some breeders put a rubber band tight around the tail until the tail falls off. Then it looks like it is naturally short on a x-ray. The dogs born with a short tail is almost never born with a correct length. In most cases it is 5-6 joints and an angle, like it is broken.
Since the tail is a part of the spine, I would consider it dangerous trying to breed the dogs with no tail. I think it would heighten the risk of spinal-problems.
I guess you will get used to the tail, I did, but it took some years!!
In Scandinavia the docked imports have been of such poor quality that the tail-dogs look much more beautiful. I guess that helped me get used to the tail.

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Erik Engeland
Wiseweiler kennel

[rottie_mama]

Erik,

If a dog is born with a naturally bobbed, crooked tail, is this considered a fault?


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Rachel aka rottie_mama
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/7900

[Ct. Tom]

brodie,
Am i missing something you said you had no intention,s of breeding this bitch?Should have been neutered period!Then to be bred to a male with bird s of prey eye color is just plain wrong!I'm also pretty sure there were no hip xrays never mind any other tests!I can,t understand why?This is what ruined the breed !!!!!!

[Chantilly]

I know a woman who has been doing some research on her own for the past 2 years about Rottweilers born without tails, and she told me a while back that a lot of them do have spinal problems. It was interesting to hear that from somebody else also!

[Erik Engeland]

There is nothing in the standard about tails so it is a bit up to the judge. Most jugdes do not say anything about it. Only one pup in my breeding was born with no tail. The tail was about 6 joints and crooked. She was not docked, the vet said he would not do it. This dog has been shown twice and the judges did not comment on it. But I guess some judges will not place such a dog high. Most dogs born with such tail, get docked and therefore not allowed to show. So we do not see much of it.

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Erik Engeland
Wiseweiler kennel

[Carol Burke]

I read an article, I think in the Quarterly, several years ago. It was an interview with a well respected breeder who said whenever he got a tailess Rottie he would cull it from the litter as it would end up deformed, with spinal problems. Also, as CT Tom pointed out, why are you breeding these dogs? Both should be neutered. You may like his eyes but they are definately incorrect.

[brodie]

Before doing anything with the pups, I rang several people within the Rottweiler association in Western Australia and had them Vet checked. I was informed by a lot of people about the possibility of spinal problems, (which is why I took them straight to the Vet) he said they all look fine and the spinal problems can occur but are very rare. One lady in the association even suggested that people only want these pups culled because they are jealous of the fact they have to get docking done (her thoughts not mine). both parents have been x-rayed, so I dont know how you can say you are sure of anything, I think that was just an attack at me. My dogs may not have the breeding that yours do, but they are mine and get the best possible care, the bitch was to be sterilized but it was just bad timing on my behalf that she was well into season when we got the male and I didnt know. As for the so called expert suggesting that they all be culled if they have no tails, I heard that the breed didnt have tails at first, lucky he wasnt there then. No one would have a Rottie

[Ct. Tom]

Brodie,
This was not an attack believe me!Also...... pretty sure does not mean sure.The point is no matter how well taken care of they are is irrelevant.They should not have been bred!I have done research on this breed and never once talked to anyone or heard from anyone that the original seven didn,t have tails?They from what i can gather were always cropped.I'm sure though some are born without tails.

[Carol Burke]

Brodie, My comments were not meant as an attack on you. I only passed along the info on the article I read as information. I don't have any feelings one way way or another as to what, if anything, should be done with tailess Rotts. However, it is unfortunate that you ended up with an accidental breeding and you should be aware that the eyes you described in your male are a disqualifying fault.