Temperament

[MARYDVM]

Since the opinions about breeding for hips have been well covered, maybe we should look into the subject of temperament. If we had a reliable system for rating temperaments as we do for hips, it might go something like this: FAIR temperament, friendly, safe around children and strangers, may show some hesitancy in strange or loud environments but recovers in a short period of time. GOOD temperament, friendly, confident in all situations, safe around children and strangers,shows balanced working drives, potential for developing protective capabilities. EXCELLENT temperament, supremely confident,friendly, safe around children and strangers,strong,balanced drives with eagerness to excel at all tasks, protection capabilities pronounced.Of course, these are my ideas of how temperament should be rated, I'm sure everyone has their own.Using the above system I can say that after meeting scores of Rottweilers over the years I would only classify 4 of them as EXCELLENT temperaments.It seems to me that excellent temperament is a lot harder to come by these days than excellent hips. Of course there aren't that many average dog owners out there capable of handling what I consider to be an EXCELLENT Rottweiler temperament... but that's another subject.

[BostonRott]

Mary,

I think your criterion are excellent, interesting thoughts. However, I would add that the whole "acting with children" part very much depends on socialization. The breeders of my youngest bitch do not have kids. She is an extremely prey driven girl too. I've had to work to get her to a point where she's not all over kids, but I still don't trust her around the very young ones, and would never have her offleash around a certain body size/maturity level.

Also, as you said, I think that most people couldn't honestly handle a "strong and correctly tempered" Rottweiler. They are very confident dogs who need a lot of guidance, and a job to do. They HAVE to be worked on an almost daily basis. They are not couch potatos, and certainly wouldn't put up with a lot of what dogs are "supposed" to tolerate out in public (in terms of other's dogs, etc).

In toying with the idea of breeding, this has been a great concern of mine. I have a friend who breeds some top working Dobes and we've many times discussed the woes of "what people SAY they want vs. what they can really handle." She's had several come back to her simply b/c they were too high in drive.

True working dogs are not for all, nor for most, in my honest opinion.

[WorkinDogz]

Awesome thread!

More people should be interested in the "whole dog" concept when considering breeding. Form minus function or vica versa is incomplete.

Wonderful posts.

[BostonRott]

One other thought on the "safe around strangers" point.......

I'd rather have my dog be a bit reserved and read the situation first (stranger's body posture, my reaction to the stranger) and decide everything is either a) ok, and behave in a friendly manner or b) something ain't right, and take a more substantive posture.

I really honestly have a problem with Rottweilers who are willing to run up to anyone and be their instant best friend. I don't think this is correct.

One thing I've observed with great interest with my girl.......if we're out for a bike/job, and a male jogger is approaching (especially with facial hair or a hat), as long as I greet the person, everything is just fine by her. But if I say nothing, I can see her assuming "the position".....more square, a hard stare, etc. Quite frankly, I have no problem with this, as a strange man running AT us could very easily be a threat. Usually I will tell her "leave it" or "phooey" and she drops the subject, but I do appreciate her willingness to investigate and be somewhat forceful about it.

I know in our "happy happy, why can't we all get along" society, this kind of a temperament does not always go over well, but it is fine by me. And yes, I do show her from time to time, and have had to do check-in's with judges who really scrutinized her ear tattoo, and she's fine with it.

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

True enough, I enjoy the company of my dog and take Nero everywhere I can. I like the fact that I can roll down the windown and ask a total stranger for directions and he sits in his seat and doesn't move or that I can go thru a drivethru window and order food and except for his anticipation of a burger he still remain unmoved. One night I was coming back from 7-11 it was 3:00am I was sick and needed asprin, I had a hatch back and just popped it open to let Nero out when suddenly he started growling first low and than louder when I turned around it was a strange man someone I didn't recognize from the development, he may have thought I had groceries or was getting something out of the back, indeed I was and the guy didn't want any part of it, he turned around the other way and started to jog off, still Nero didn't move from the back he waited til I called him out. I receive numerous complements and while I'd like to take all the credit the truth is he was over a year old when I got him from the shelter and while we did work on some issues he just has a wonderful temperment. Temperment can't be taught and really can successfully be modified. The Rottweiler temperment is a wait and see approach not shoot first and ask questions later.

[This message has been edited by Diane Heller (edited April 27, 2000).]

[Alaskan]

That is a very interesting way to categorize temperment. I like my rotts personalities. They tend to be territorial but when we introduce them to someone they will sniff the person once or twice then stand back beside us and silently look on. They aren't overly friendly and yet are polite in a manner of speaking. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[MARYDVM]

Many years ago, while attending my first German style show, I found myself talking to the handler of a tough bitch who had outscored most of the males in the ZTP that day. The bitch was sitting quietly between us,when without thinking(and without asking) I reached down and patted her on the head. She gave me a look and a low growl that made it clear she wasn't going to be fondled by strangers. Although this bitch was not social with strangers, she was safe with strangers - or she would have made her point a lot more forcefully.

[Carol Burke]

Finally some really good posts on Rottie Temperament. I have Rotties because I like the aloofness they display to strangers and the clownishness(is this a word?)they display to their family. If you want a dog who is friendly to all get a Golden or Lab. I have one bitch who is friendly to all and although I love her to death I wish she were a bit more standoffish. Another good point on children, my male was not raised with kids and although he is a registered therapy dog I would not trust him around really young kids. He is fine out in the world, but babies or toddlers that come to my house are considered prey by him. Since he is completely obedient it is a non issue, but I know how he is feeling by his look.

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Carol
Darrlburg Rottweilers

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by BostonRott:
... I really honestly have a problem with Rottweilers who are willing to run up to anyone and be their instant best friend. I don't think this is correct.

I agree to some extent...is OK for a working Rottweiler not to run up to a greet a stranger, but by the same token it is wrong for a Rottweiler to attack just anybody, i.e. a friend or a guest invited to one's house, or the encounter with a friendly stranger in the street. In other words, it is acceptable for a Rottweiler to be wary of strangers but is unacceptable that he charges and attacks any person for no justifiable reason. One has to understand this concept in good order: Rottweilers can be sociable protective dogs as in family companion pets, but flash-fire guard dogs are just a dangerous liability waiting to happen... There is the difference http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

[Bucky's Mom]

Since Bucky was 8 weeks old we have socialized him constantly with young children and strangers at the park - since his job is companion and suburban dog - (who I have started in obedience work) at 5 months I WANT him to accpt and be friendly to all. He won't be bred - but in his real world accepting who I accept for him is of utmost importance - Any thoughts on this - Lisa

[frontierrots]

Since the majorty of my puppies go to busy family homes they need to be happy accept all type of dogs. Not truely correct rott temperament no, but correct for this lifestyle. These are excellant homes but they would not want or be able to handle "correct" rott temperment.

I personally do have 3 dogs (out of 6) that are very wary of strangers. Additionally my young male is very sociable except when we are out for walks, then no one is allowed to approach me except friends. And this is just fine with me

But I do raise my pups o be all around sociable and outgoing, friendly dogs for my puppy buyers sake

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Diane
Frontier Rottweilers & Shiba Inu and
Volunteer with NorthEast Rottweiler Rescue & Referral http://www.rottrescue.org

[BostonRott]

Originally posted by German Vanegas:
I agree to some extent...is OK for a working Rottweiler not to run up to a greet a stranger, but by the same token it is wrong for a Rottweiler to attack just anybody. In other words, it is acceptable for a Rottweiler to be wary of strangers but is unacceptable that he charges and attacks any person for no justifiable reason.

German,
I agree. I never said it is correct for Rottweiler to charge or attack just anyone. My girl, for the most part, is oblivious to strangers. If I tell her to "go say hi" she will go over to them, but still isn't a mush of kisses.

However, certain instances, like men running at us, make her a bit more on alert and quite frankly, I have no problems with this. I can easily diffuse it, or tell her to simply ignore it. After a few of the life's experiences that I've had, I'm more than happy to have a dog whose posture will make people think twice about approaching me, if I decide not to defuse the situation. I'm not talking about a snapping whirling dervish, simply "the look." I'm sure you know which one I mean. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[German Vanegas]

BostonRott,
I guess I kind of understand your point. However, I believe dogs should not be used as intimidating tools.

I agree that the imposing presence of a Rottweiler should deter any ill intention from a person, but the dog should be sociable enough as to accept non threatening humans. Or else, one day, your "protective" dog may decide to bite someone out of "instinct"... Then you will probably have legal problems and the Media on you.

To have a dog as THE personal security system gives people a false sense of security. Dogs can be put out of action with handguns, shotguns, crossbows, stun electric guns, pepper spray, large knives, baseball bats or blunt instruments, and so forth and so on. Hence, prevention is better than the cure, anyway.

Therefore, if you live in a community I recommend you better have a sociable dog that can accept people and may react appropriately ONLY to a REAL human threat. This way you could avoid the nightmare of your dog biting someone, just because he/she "didn't like him"... and then face the consequences of an unjustifiable bite.

Responsible dog ownership is of paramount importance http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

[Barbara Surplus]

Great post, Mary. I believe the author of the Complete Idiot's Guide, to paraphrase, advises to socialize, socialize, socialize when the dog is young. He will welcome all in a friendly manner if you do but by the time he matures, the Rotties natural aloofness may set in and if he is raised properly, he will be wary of strangers but not naturally aggressive. That's if we've all done our jobs properly. If they're mushballs when they're younger that's fine with me.

Thanks for bringing this topic up.
Barbara

[This message has been edited by Barbara Surplus (edited April 18, 2000).]