Need Help/info on difference between male/female pups and growth!!!

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Just a very important point. Pick is not determined by size but by correctness. If this breeder thinks that is what determines the quality, in the words of Monty Python "run away run away"...... I too think something is seriously wrong with a breeder than does not know one sex from another. Sex is determined by the plumbing, not size.

Absolutely agree. In addition, a breeder who 'picks' pups at the tender age of two weeks would appear to be blowing a lot of smoke up somewhere shady....and to not realize the sex of the pups? Either they need glasses, or they haven't handled the pups until now... either way this = a BIG RED FLAG.

Personalities really begin to develop a few weeks afterwards, and conformation is very difficult to tell at the tender age of 2 weeks...

You might want to consder shopping around a little more. A good breeder is someone who is knowledgable about the breed (and breeding!), helps to pick the pup you're getting based upon your lifestyle, experience level and goals you have with your pup. Sometimes we get so excited about the prospect of a new puppy, we don't take everything into consideration that we should. (food for thought)

In addition, an ethical breeder will mentor you throughout the life of the pup you receive from them - kind of like an automatic lifeline.

Anyone can put two dogs together and produce pups - it takes experience and knowledge to do this with a plan - a plan which involves knowing the characteristics (temperamentally, physically, etc...) that each dog brings to the table. They take health into consideration, and stand by what they produce.

Soooo, to answer your question; if it were me getting a pup, I'd think about my plans with the dog, my experience level, my lifestyle, and try to match a pup that fits those parameters. Sure, Males do grow up to be larger, but size is such a small part of the equation. This is not a giant breed, so size doesn't impress me - brains, health, and physical stability do.

Good luck with your decision.

[dogsbestfriend]

Thank you all for your replys...

I find that you all made very good points that I did not think about at all.. Yeah, I think I will pose more questions to this breeder regarding things as you all mentioned.. ESPECIALLY about their thoughts on matching the right dog with the right owner... and you'll right... there are far more important things I should be being told other than "who's the biggest"...

In the meantime, I will continue my search !!!!

[Sharon Marples]

I agree, I don't know how she can be assessing the "pick" at this age. My gosh, they are not even walking or trotting. Movement is one of the most essential qualities in picking a "pick".........makes me wonder about her saying the bitch is pick!

Maybe it would help if you told us what you were planning on doing with the pup. Are you wanting to show it in breed or is it being purchased mainly as a family companion? There is a lot of difference in what you might choose depending on what you plan to do with the dog.

We have bred numerous litters over the last 20 years and from experience, I can say that although we think we may see a favorite earlier, we NEVER make our final evaluation of the pups until they are 7.5 weeks of age. At that age you can get a proper evaluation of both conformation and temperament, not before.

At 7.5 weeks of age, we have a total stranger (to the puppies) come in and evaluate their temperaments via a temperament test. That, combined with our expertise and that of other breeders whose opinion on conformation we value, determines who is "pick" of the litter.

Unlesss they are selling ALL of these puppies as pet companions, it is WAY too early to say the bitch is the pick. I bet in 4-6 months all the males will be larger than she. And there is no way at two weeks of age that conformation and temperament can be determined. Both those items, especially temperament, are essential to me to be determined before knowing which puppy will be appropriate for which household.

Good luck and be sure to ask lots of questions before picking your puppy! Don't let your heart get taken away by their cuteness until you are absolutly sure you are working with a good ethical breeder that will provide you with a contract and guarantees on the pups.

Happy puppy breath!

PS Another red flag to me was the fact that they had to let the dam "calm down" before they could get in there and see how many of each sex they had. This would put up a HUGE red flag to me on the temperament of the dam. See how she reacts to you when you visit and play with the pups.

[rottcrazed]

PS Another red flag to me was the fact that they had to let the dam "calm down" before they could get in there and see how many of each sex they had. This would put up a HUGE red flag to me on the temperament of the dam. See how she reacts to you when you visit and play with the pups.

EXACTLY!

I was in there along with two close breeder friends ready to catch and clean every puppy as they came out. Good grief, I can't even imagine having let her alone with her litter to have it. Granted, she was and is an excellent mom, who knows what could have happened had we not been there????

Just kind of speaks volumes of what kind of temperament the bitch may have if the owners can't get in there with her during her whelping process .

Kristi

[spidey]

I'll just echo what the others have said about the red flags this is raising. I would be VERY worried about a breeder who can't get close to a dog she owns simply because the dog has puppies (my breeder friends are ALWAYS there to assist with their dogs' deliveries, and handle the puppies from birth, I visited my current dog before his eyes were open and his dam came and climbed into my lap and gave me a good facewash while I was stroking him, she wasn't the least bit concerned about me touching her puppies, in fact she was happy to see me). And I'd be very worried about the dam's temperament. I'm also worried about assessing pick at this age. You can get some idea of obvious things like mismarks and glaring conformational problems (as well as birth defects like cleft palates), but I don't know of many breeders who'd decide which puppy was pick at this age. If I were you, I would find another breeder based ONLY on the fact that the breeder couldn't get close to the puppies because of the way the dam was behaving, the other red flags simply reinforce that position as far as I'm concerned. The dam has a huge effect on her puppies' temperaments, not only genetically, but also in the impact of the weeks they spend with her seeing and hearing how she interacts with people.

[damp]

Originally Posted by Sharon Marples

PS Another red flag to me was the fact that they had to let the dam "calm down" before they could get in there and see how many of each sex they had. This would put up a HUGE red flag to me on the temperament of the dam. See how she reacts to you when you visit and play with the pups.

The echo is still booming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!