Petra Earl Antonius x Noris Alten Festung

[WCR]

Hello,
Thank You for allowing me to join this forum. I would like to announce the purchase of the excellent producer " and Petra Earl Antonius and her pregnancy to the excellent producer Noris Alten Festung. She will arrive in Virginia this month and be shown at the NC show on the 12-14 of March. She will whelp in Virginia and fly to her home in California. This is a repeat litter by Alten Festung that has borne many Champions.
Thank You.

[sophie's-mom]

This is interesting.

More information please. Will you be at the NC show? Is she pregnant NOW???

Welcome to the forum.

[AdonisRotts]

Congrats, that should be a nice litter. It would be close to a repeat breeding of Gonzzo Earl Antonius, Who just arrived into the states. Zorba Earl Antonius was owned by my good friends, the Mraviks. Actually isn't Petra almost a repeat of the Crni Lotos "G" litter? She is out of Beni x Britta (Britta is Bessy's litter sister). I have a Gil Crni Lotos daughter. Best of luck with your litter.

[VonScosher]

Good luck with your litter. I'm curious why the litter is being whelped in Virginia and not CA. Are you the breeder of record on the litter and are you planning to do tails, or leave them? Best Wishes,

[WCR]

Good morning to all.
The purchase of Petra was unexpected and very fortunate. We will debut her at the show in NC, yes she will show and is in top show form. We are awaiting ultrasound to confirm her pregnancy before exporting her, which was will not occur (ultrasound) until months end, putting her at 4 weeks pregnant. The reason for the whelp in Virginia is that my friend Aaron Tabor has been a long time admirer of her and a good friend to Sandra, her prior owner. Given Aarons experience with whelping and our friendship, I thought best to keep her in Virginia until she and the pups are able to travel to my kennel at 5 weeks of age. Homes will be of show types only. Co-ownership will be made available to top homes for my select pups. Sandra should be the breeder on the document because this was a true Alten Festung decision prior to purchase. Tails will remain on to comply with the original intent of the litter.
Again, Thank You for providing this forum. I hope to provide you with even more exciting acquistions this later year.
Bob

[WCR]

With respect to the Britta/Bessy comparison; Britta and Bessy present two different types. Bessy tended to produce a lower temperment and longer back, while Britta produced the shorter back and higher drive.

[AdonisRotts]

Well if you re-read my original post I wasn't comparing the two, I was stating a fact (they are littermate sisters) and being polite and congratulating you. However if you want to compare the two how can you make the above statement with no proof? Britta has one working titled offspring to my knowledge and Bessy has at least 10 working titled offspring, and as for a longer or shorter back. I only know of one of the "G" and "F" litter Crni Lotos and the "D" Dragevica (spelling ???, I never get that right) that I would consider long in the back. While I know of a Britta offspring that is long in the back as well. I think both produced very similar type, the bitch that you bought Petra looks very similar to the bitches from the "G" litter. If you get on a public forum and make a statement you should have info to back it up. I was merely just being polite in my original post and saying that your litter should be nice.
As for your statement above about the show in the Carolina's don't you think it is a terribly bad idea to try and show a 6 week pregnant bitch (according to your posts above that is how far along she would be) under a judge who loves to run the entries?????? Plus you say she is in top show condition? How could she be, she has had three previous litters and is pregnant with her fourth, you'll be lucky if her belly is dragging the ground from being pregnant. I would take serious precautions against showing her, especially if you want a nice healthy litter and dam.

[WCR]

First of all, there was no confrontational statement made, and your polite (original)comment was warmly met and appreciated. This is why I despise forums, the context is all too often construed to what the reader wishes. My knowledge comes from the source of a breeder that knew both bitches. I've been around the breed and in Europe for quite awhile, and contrary to your belief, I know more than the average breeder. Your concern for Petra makes me wonder when you saw her last? I am very well aware of whom the judge is and running Petra at 6 weeks is not even a concern, because she is in top shape (if she is quite obtunded, of course I would reconsider)... QUOTE "Plus you say she is in top show condition? How could she be, she has had three previous litters and is pregnant with her fourth, you'll be lucky if her belly is dragging the ground from being pregnant. I would take serious precautions against showing her, especially if you want a nice healthy litter and dam." You have seen Petra...yes? So Sandras evaluation, mine and my agents is wrong? I do not know what or how your bitches are cared for, mine tuck nicely back and so has she...good breeding does that. Why the confrontation? "If you get on a public forum and make a statement you should have info to back it up." Your words, and I can. Because I am new, you consider me illiterate on the breed? What condition is Oxana in? Oh, she has had a few litters. Sidney?You asked if to whether or not Petra was a close repeat breeding to Gil. My comment only stated what is known between the two sisters, this was not confrontational but only passing breeding information along. When I want answers, I go right to those whom have used what is in question, my information and knowledge comes right from source. These traits where forwarded to me from one of Europes most well known breeders whom used the Bessy side. So I am not merely creating opinions. Yours are from what you have seen or heard, mine are from those whom knew them. Again, Thank You deeply for your concern and firsthand knowledge of Petra because "If you get on a public forum and make a statement you should have info to back it up." Can you forward me a current pic of her, mine must have been retouched. If you wish to discuss this further, you are welcome to email me. Again, the reply in question was not an assault on you because Bessy is in your bitches pedigree. It was a casual reply which I feel was taken wrong.... :)

[AdonisRotts]

Well I was politely asking you why you want to risk your bitches or affecting the health of the puppies just to show her? I know that bitches can tighten up nicely, and I am not saying anything bad about Petra she is a beautiful bitch or that she hasn't tighten back up. But at six weeks most bitches start to get uncomfortable and some often begin to drop milk especially in bitches who have already whelped a litter or two, Why would you want to drag her around the ring? Especially if she has more than a few puppies.
Sorry you probably couldn't tell me anything that I don't already know about those lines. The breeder of my bitch, is also the owner of Gil Crni Lotos, Josef (FCI judge) and Taunya Mravik whom I am very close friends with, and they are good friends with breeders of your bitch Petra. They have done alot of breedings that were linebreedings on the "G" Crni Lotos litter. They owned Multi-Country CH Zorba Earl Antonius IPO I until he was sold to South America last month, who was a line breeding on the G Crni Lotos litter. I know the good, the bad, and the very ugly about the lines. Actually in my opinion even though it is her pedigree I am not at all impressed with the "B" litter Haus Krammer, too many problems. We have talked alot about those lines since we were trying to make breeding decisions for my bitch, ie conformational aspects, working temperment, and health issues. I was just saying that you shouldn't say things unless you were willing to explain why you believe that. It is one thing to say something, it is another to have info to back it up. I mean you could always prove me wrong??? I would love to see Brita's titled offspring (I am not being sarcastic), I just haven't seen proof. I would be the first person to admit when I am wrong. Heck, I am considering taking my bitch to Gonzzo, I really like what Earl Antonius produces. And I never assumed you were uneducated about the breed or a newbie, but if you are going to make BOLD statements especially in regards to a producer you have to prove your statement.
Best of luck on your litter and at the shows!!!!

[sophie's-mom]

HEY BOB!! AGAIN, CONGRATULATIONS!!! This seems like a VERY interesting breeding!

Would LOVE to hear more about it, such as........what you plan on keeping............what "type" your expecting......etc.!

I think you will have your hands FULL when these pups get to you!

Good Luck..........maybe I'll get to see Petra in March! (I hope)

[WCR]

S-M,
Thank You very much. Adonis, it is very apparent you are stuck on attempting to prove something to yourself, which I will not take party to QUOTE " Sorry you probably couldn't tell me anything that I don't already know about those lines." That comment tells alot about you, so if you wish to further this personal agenda, please free to contact me. Yes, I am very well aware of the Mraviks, they are very good people,so Thank You for informing me on information that I already know about themselves, Zorba, Gil... I am not here to attempt to impress anyone with my knowledge, like some may be trying to. Again, this 'conversation' you are attempting to provoke is in the wrong forum, so contact me if you wish to. I thinks dragging breeders names into conversations is also tasteless...

S-M, I will be keeping several bitches on the east coast, one male and one female here on the west. What do I expect for type? If history repeats itself, a type much like Vulcan vd Alten Festung.