what could happen?

[Sak2]

This is mostly for the people that know the CANADIAN by laws but any output would be appreciated.

Say a CKC registered breeder, produces a litter, fails to register the litter, puppy buyers don't get a registeration # or the CKC can't find a litter #?

Say the breeder kept a litter mate any is showing him or her with no reg. , I am aware that the points probably wouldn't count, but will the breeder pay a fine after the said dog reached CH.?

And finally the breeder is caught by the CKC for not registering the litter what could be the sentance carried out ? One first or worst cases sceneario?
:o :o :o
If anyone knows, any knowledge spend would be greatly appreciated.
K

[Judi W]

to the best of my knowlege, regardless of the country, a dog cannot be entered in any show unless it has a registration number. The show secretary or superintendent cannot accept an entry without that.

[rottcrazed]

Yes, it is true that a dog can be shown here in Canada under a LISTED class that means that the dog's registration number is not yet available. Alot of foreign born dogs are shown under this until their papers go through. They can accumulate points, but they cannot officially get a championship title until they are confirmed to have a CKC registration number.

Breeders have until 6 months after the birth of a litter (pups are 6 months old) to place registration papers in the hands of their puppy buyers. An individual puppy buyer can make a complaint to the CKC if they do not have the papers by the time they are 6 months old. The CKC will look into it (which can take MONTHS AND MONTHS), at a small fee to the person inquiring.

Now, as far as I know, if a breeder is found negligent in providing puppy buyers with papers (meaning that the litter may not have been registered), they can lose their membership privileges - within these parameters, they cannot participate in CKC events (not even sending their own dogs to shows with handlers), register any other litters/dogs, and as far as I know, they cannot purchase a dog from another breeder (thus having a dog registered in their own name while under suspension). This is within a time frame, I have seen people lose their privileges from 6 months to a couple of years. I believe they are also fined.

Problem with all of this is that I think the people that have puppies from litters in question are screwed as far as getting papers for their dogs. This usually means that they have purchased a dog for a fair amount of money, possible show dog, and can now do nothing with it.

I can dig a little more if you would like, unless someone else has better info.

Kristi

[Sak2]

Originally posted by Judi W
to the best of my knowlege, regardless of the country, a dog cannot be entered in any show unless it has a registration number. The show secretary or superintendent cannot accept an entry without that.

Sorry I foregot to add that you can show a young dog for the CKC as" listed" for a peroid of time but the dogs are now 14 months old with no reg. or litter #
Do you have to have you dog's registration # before entering any show? even if the dog is a puppy, over 6 months?

[rottcrazed]

Let me also say that if a person is thinking of entering an unregistered dog in a show under the LISTED class (which is not a separate class in the show, just on the entry form), well, I guess in theory they could, but the sire and dam of the dog must be listed on the entry form as well as the breeder's name, birth date of the dog, etc.... so much more info must be given before just entering a dog as 'listed'.

Kristi

[rottcrazed]

I also have a friend with a 20 month old bitch she imported for Belgium that still has no official reg. with the CKC but she is still being shown.

Kristi

[Sak2]

I was also woundering if the C.K.C would offer a difference in imports vs. Can ad ian born?
I know the sire and dam have registration #'s and CH-ships but I wounder why the pups have nothing, not even a litter #?
Could the breeder looses all of her dogs? CKC repo's them?
Apprently the breeder is cammagining the littermate, the pup won various of shows, a speciality and is starting its US career, the pup is now 14 months.
What would the
A K C do?
I'm sorry to continue with this I just find it hard to find that the breeder may get a slap on the wrist after alot of work.
K

[rottcrazed]

Okay, here is what I have found (this is verbatim out of the CKC bylaws):

In the case of a CKC member breeder, he cannot, under any circumstances, sell puppies from any litter, unless they are being sold as purebred. Selling them as non-purebred or selling them without papers (which automatically makes them non-purebred), is a serious violation of the By-laws. [S.28 & S.7.2 CKC By-laws]



Timing of application is Extremely Important
Please note that the individual progeny, if sold, must be registered with the CKC and the new owner must be supplied with the Certificate of Registration within six months of the date of sale. In order to register the individual progeny, the litter itself must first be registered with the CKC and the owner at birth (usually the breeder) must have received back from CKC the Certificate of Registration of Litter plus a unique computer-generated application for individual Registration of a Dog Born in Canada for each of the progeny. This is done to ensure the integrity of the CKC registry.
Following receipt of the applications to register the individual progeny, the owner at birth (usually the breeder) must complete and forward them to CKC for registration. If approved, they will subsequently receive a Certificate of Registration for each dog, which they must then forward to the new owner of the dog.


Canadian Born Dogs
Most often, the breeder registers and transfers the dog at the same time, by completing an application for Registration of a Dog Born in Canada which also contains a transfer section. (As noted above, these applications are computer generated forms which are forwarded to the breeder automatically by CKC upon registration of the litter. The breeder receives one such form for each dog in the litter.) [S.29.2 and 30.4 CKC By-laws]

If the breeder is expeditious in sending in the applications to CKC, the Certificate of Registration for the dog will be generated and returned to the breeder by CKC. The breeder must record the registration information contained on that Certificate in his breeding record book and then must provide the Certificate to the new owner.

Do you have a problem?
Do you require further information?

For further information on the purchase, sale and registration of purebred dogs, or, for further clarification of the requirements of the Animal Pedigree Act and the CKC By-laws, please feel free to contact our Client Services Department or our Registration Division at the following address, telephone and facsimile numbers:

The Canadian Kennel Club
Commerce Court
89 Skyway Avenue, Suite 100
Etobicoke, ON M9W 6R4
Telephone: (416) 675-5511
Fax: (416) 675-6506


I hope this helps a little, I am still looking for a little more info. The CKC is pretty slow to respond to some things, but I think for things like this they are priority.

Kristi

[Judi W]

AKC also has an allowance for individual registration pending however, a litter number must by supplied. For imports, a foreign registration number from a recognized registry can be used (again for a very limited time period) while the AKC number is pending processing. BUT, there must be evidence of registration elgibility (litter number or acceptable foreign registration), not just putting down the name of a dog.

PS, a dog that is found to have been inelgible to compete whether disqualified or because of fraud, is not counted towards the points and if it won, the points pass on to the reserve dog or bitch. That is the whole purpose of reserve. (well, that and should the winners come up lame or bite someone)

[rottcrazed]

I believe that to be the same within the CKC, however, I have never done it myself. I do have to say that after entering many shows up here, LISTED just needs to be checked off on the entry forms and then the rest filled out as usual, so I am not sure.

I have been searching for the info and I haven't found any yet.

Kristi

[CanadianRotts]

If it's any help....the CKC will register your puppy late.

In '96, I purchased a show bitch puppy. She was from a CH. German import dam, and an Italian import sire.

I entered her at her first shows at the Credit Valley shows, when she was 6-months old. {It used to be at the SkyDome in Toronto. (Specialty shows...over 60 Rotties entered). }

The first day, she won her class...and Best Puppy, the second day, she won Winners Bitch and Best Puppy in Specialty for 5-points. She was un-registered, and only entered as LISTED.

Normally you have 30-days after your first point win to register the dog, but in this case, I was told that the ADRK/Italian papers were 'in transit'. She was finally registered when she was 3-years old...and now a CH. She did not lose any points...and she had completed ALL of her CH points by being entered as LISTED, as well as a name change.

If something is out of your control, you should not be penalized for it.

Dianna