Testing Litters

[DNeff]

Lauren's post about picking a puppy and temperament testing, brought up a few questions I had for those of you who breed.

What puppy test do you prefer and why? I am pretty fond of Sheila Booth's Positive Puppy Preview, has anyone used it? Thoughts?

Do any of you go back and compare the puppy tests with what you are seeing from the dog at say four of five years of age. Have you been surprised much? Any thing that seems to be harder to truly test for or doesn't show up in the testing?

How much do you think knowing the puppy's strengths and weakness has help that puppy reach it's maximum potential or beyond because of accurate testing and then dedicated puppy raising?

TIA!!!

P.S. all this puppy talk is causing some serious puppy cravings!!!

Dawn + Osa
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[Rocky's_mom]

I can't help you there...but I can relate to the serious puppy cravings!!!!

[Sharon Marples]

Dawn,
We have always used the P.A.T test (Puppy Aptitude Test) on our pups when they are 49 days of age. We have found that for the biggest portion of our pups, it has been an accurate indicator of their temperament and working ability.

....."How much do you think knowing the puppy's strengths and weakness has help that puppy reach it's maximum potential or beyond because of accurate testing and then dedicated puppy raising?".........

I think it helps a lot because it helps us determine which puppy is best suited for which home. We don't want to place a high-drive puppy into a home where it is destined to be a couch potato, nor do we want to place a very low-drive pup into a home that is itching to compete in many working arenas.

I've not heard of the Sheila Booth Positive Puppy Preview, do you have a website where it is explained? I'd love to research it and add it to our testing as well. I'm always looking for additional ways to test our pups.

[DNeff]

Sharon,
Unfortunately, I have yet to run across Sheila's test described on the web any where in detail. I attended a seminar by her on matching temperment to training (she covered evaluating litters) and bought her audio tape describing how she tests litters. It takes the PAT test and then goes further. Mainly focusing on drives, recovery, focus, etc.... I really like her take on all of it.

The tape can be purchased from dogwise. Here's a link. I thought it was well worth the money.

http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB462

Dawn + Osa
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC OAJ NA TT CGC
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[Sharon Marples]

Thanks, I'm putting it on my Christmas list! :)

[CanadianRotts]

Hi all:

I have always used a specialzed puppy aptitude test aimed at working dogs. It was given to me from a well-known/respected Rottweiler kennel in the US, via England.

I will try to find a copy, and post here.

Dianna

[BostonRott]

I have had a highly respected woman (who has OTCH'd a Rottweiler bitch) do the PAT test on both of my litters. She also has an additional test that she does.

I pretty much had the pups matched to homes before they were ever tested, and there have not been any huge surprises in the tests.

To me, when choosing my own pup, or placing working pups, I look at the subtleties..........the retrieve, did the puppy bring it DIRECTLY to the testor? Or just to the area of the testor? Held calmly? Chewing while returning? Straight out and back?

By the time the pups hit 7 weeks, I've spent so much time with them (individually, as well as together as a litter) that I have a very solid feel for who will be what. :)

[Judi W]

I too have found the PAT test to be very predictive. I have administered it since the early 80's to many Rottweiler litters, and other breeds from Shelties to Saints and Anatolians (that is interesting). Many of these dogs I have seen again in the ATTS tests and in training classes. The excellent thing is correctly placing the pup, and that this will point out areas that should have extra attention.

A good dog can certainly be ruined, but a truly weak dog (freezes, hides, no recoveries) can only be encouraged along to a certain limit. In a well-balanced litter sometimes the differences will be very subtle and of little or no consequence.

On a personal basis, I'll take all the ones. For a novice home or less confident owner - nope that pup is not for them. A pup that attacks the paper and carts it off to kill is just fine with me. A pup that doesn't settle on the restraint items and maintains hard eye contact - that is fine too. Is this a pup for the average home? No it is not. What I do want to see in all pups is recovery and bounce back.

I think the PAT covers what needs to be covered. The breeders are often surprised in what is discovered by a PAT because too often they have not separated the pups and worked with them one on one and what they have been observing are pack behaviors.

Who administers the PAt is critical. A person cannot simply just print out the test and use the scales and come up with an accurate accessment. There are nuances and subtlies. The difference between submitting and freezing being just one example. Responses might not fall into the described lists, but must be placed on a scale.

Time of day is influential as well. You don't want pups tested when they are tired and if just waking up, give them time to become alert. Pups that have been receiving education from the breeder are a blessing to the puppy purchaser. Those little minds have been working since day one.

[Rottlva]

In anyone's opinion.... do you find the test results are more accurate if done by a neutral stranger vs. yourself assuming both are equally knowledgeable (sp?) of testing?

Also..... I was reading about Vollhard's Obedience Aptitude test. Would you do that on the same day, or allow the pups to rest after thier PAT and do it on the following day?

[Judi W]

The PAT test is given by a stranger

[Rottlva]

Originally posted by Judi W
The PAT test is given by a stranger

;) That makes perfect sense.
Pardon my ignorance as I am learning, but what if a pup scores all over the board, say 1's, 6's and in between. Does it happen? (Assume that the tester is experienced)

[Judi W]

Yes it can happen but not often. It can be that a dog with high prey drive has no or very low social/pack drive. A dog can be at one end on the social things and be for some strange reason exceedingly sound sensitive. and so forth