Logical Contracts That Make Sense

[TrishB]

There is one clause in puppy contracts that drives me batty:

"Replacement Puppy"

Who on earth has actually ever done this?!?! What was the situation? What happened to the previous dog?

Although as contracts go, it makes sense that if one is 'broken' that you get a 'new' one to replace it. But we're not talking about a TV here are we?

So how about a clause that makes sense? Please let me know your thoughts on this proposal:

General Guarantee: Should the puppy develop a genetic problem which compromises it's health or ability to function fully (i.e. hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, etc.) the owner has the following options upon delivery of a veterinary certificate of neuter / spay:
1) An additional puppy of like quality at such a time as one is produced.
2) Full refund of purchase price.

In addition, to the above for a Show Prospect: Should the puppy develop a disqualifying fault for the show ring (i.e. wry bite) the owner has the following options upon delivery of a veterinary certificate of neuter / spay:
1) An additional puppy of like quality at such a time as one is produced.
2) Full refund of purchase price.

The reason I say this, is that I don't like the clauses which state that the original puppy must be returned to the breeder. I love my dog. There's no way that Parker is ever leaving me. But I shouldn't be penalized for that love and unable to utilize my guarantee because of it. So how about something that we can actually use?

Note: Parker is fine – no problems. Just an example! :D

Good breeders may also offer to pay 50% of all treatment costs, or some 100%. Which would also be nice.

But I believe that what I've stated above would protect owners of puppies. It doesn't cause owners to sacrifice their loved pups. It enforces pups with faults to be fixed so they can't perpetuate the problem. It would also reward breeders with good breeding practices, knowing that their pups won't cause such a clause to be used in the first place. ;)

What do you think?

[Judi W]

I believe that if a show prospect doesn't turn out, and the owner wishes to keep the dog, refund to pet price is common and fair.

[Sharon Marples]

We never say that a puppy has to be returned unless it is the buyer's choice to do so. Our contracts call for a refund down to a pet price for a show puppy and money back on the price of a pet puppy if something like this happens.

We have taken one puppy back in all our years of breeding due to a health issue because the people buying the pup were specifically looking for a bitch they could show and start a breeding program with. They also knew that we would place the returned pup in a loving home which we did and that pup just celebrated her 7th birthday yesterday.

I for one do not adhere to a one-way only" contract. If something shows up on a pup we sell, we are open to discussion as to what will happen to that pup, who will keep it, who it will be placed with. The main thing is that the pup is taken care of and our puppy clients are satisfied with what we work out amongst ourselves. We have one issue at hand right now, a pup we placed as a pet was just found to have chd (and he is out of two "excellent" parents!). This happens and because he was placed as a pet, we normally only offer a minimum amount of money back. However, his owner will be doing surgery to help this boy and because of that, we will be replacing the full cost of the puppy to her.

As I said, we handle every situation individually.

[Judi W]

More than fair. I think the circumstances when the full purchase price might be refunded are very rare. People who want a dog only if it becomes perfect are not my choice of homes and I do not refer such people to breeders. The breeder hopes that all pups will meet expectations, but if for some reason it does not, it should still be gotten with the idea that it will be a member of the family. Bite goes off? You have a pet. Likely a well bred if not breedable pet. Does that mean you should have a free dog? Why? The other pet purchasers paid for their dogs.

The "return the puppy" contracts are usually used by shoddy breeders knowing that most people are bonded to the dog, will not return it and hence they have met their end of the contract at no cost whatsoever. On the rare occasion where a pup is returned, no problem, they're just cranking out another litter anyway.

Unless for some unexpected reason the dog must be euthanized or has such a severe problem that it cannot live a normal life, I do not see that full refunds are called for.

[TrinityRun]

I have never had anyone tell me they wanted to return the original pup for a replacement puppy -they have the option to keep it or return it, their call. However, I have owned a puppy that did not turn out to be show quality. I'd contacted the breeder, she was placed in a wonderful home 20 minutes from here - friends of my family. I picked a replacement puppy out of the next litter.

Only in dogs here in the US do we really see this contract/guarantee thing. Typically, when you buy an animal it's sold on as "as is" basis. If you import a dog from Germany, it typically comes with no guarantee. It could die on the plane ride over and you get no compensation nor do you expect one.

[Judi W]

And that is for sure. I believe that the good breeders in this country go far beyond what anyone else does in their puppy sales. That is one of the reasons why I don't believe anyone should expect a full refund although under special circumstances at the breeder's discretion, one might be given.

[Sharon Marples]

That is one of the reasons why I don't believe anyone should expect a full refund although under special circumstances at the breeder's discretion, one might be given.

I agree and in the case I was speaking about, this is a very untypical situation. More involved than just the pup, there is the relationship between us and the owner, the care she has given to him and much, much more.

Typically, we do NOT give a full refund.....but every case has its own merits to be judged by. I believe that is what makes a good breeder....to judge each case by itself, not to just look at what is down on a piece of paper and only go by those rules.

[poohbearsmom]

I intend to do business like Judi and Sharon, once I have a breeding program going.... :)

Nuff said.

[TrishB]

Sorry all, I re-read what I wrote. I intended to say Show price refunded down to Pet price. No reason to get a free dog.

It was more of a question of the 'return'.

Maybe if some prospective puppy owners see this thread, they'll know what to look for in a contract. Because when you first read, "replacement puppy" you really don't read it for what that may mean.

When reading a contract - take your time. Read it outloud to yourself. It may help you to flag areas that you don't understand or would like to rework. Good breeders are happy to discuss their contract - what it means, if it can be changed (i.e. My dog is from a US breeder - so I had references to Parker attempting to attain an AKC Championship changed to just Championship, since I'm in Canada).

Sure = a replacement puppy. Fine. But what about your current dog? Where does it go? What happens to it? I've heard horror stories of dogs that have been returned (health, structure, temperament problems, etc.) and reintegrated into a breeding program!! Or simply put down rather than attempting to rehome it (healthy dogs that could have been rehomed).

Read the fine print and be comfortable enough with your breeder to discuss the details. :)

[Judi W]

Actually since you made the full refund statement twice, I'm assuming you meant that, but just had not thought it through from the point of fairness to the breeder as well as the puppy buyer. An agreement must be fair to both sides.

When a breeder sells a pup, they too are taking a chance. They are taking a chance that the purchaser is going to do right by the pup, raise it correctly and with love and respect, not delay training until they have a serious behavior problem or get married have a baby and decide they don't want the dog around the baby, then relegate it to a kennel or the backyard and then say "I want you to take this dog back, return my money and make sure it gets a good home! Yeah, right. I've known more than a couple of cases where someone has asked me to take such a dog that they have gotten back "because you will know how to handle it".............

Yes, I'd know how to handle it. No I don't want it.

So let's be fair to the breeders as well. They have put in a tremendous amount of time, money and effort producing the best puppies they can and the pet buyers not just the show homes benefit from that by having a much better dog than they would otherwise. There are places where you can get a free dog, but it is not going to have the background, early attention and care in its well-being that your breeder pup has.

[poohbearsmom]

:)

[TrishB]

Originally posted by Judi W
Actually since you made the full refund statement twice, I'm assuming you meant that, but just had not thought it through from the point of fairness to the breeder as well as the puppy buyer. An agreement must be fair to both sides.

That was because I cut and pasted it, with the intention of editing it. :p Darn ctrl keys! :p

There's no reason to get a free puppy. If your dog grows a little too tall or something that disqualifies it from showing, you still have a great pet dog - which is what you should pay for (short of the show price).

For the discussion, some breeders don't charge different prices for show / pet dogs. Why? Because it costs the same amount of money to get and raise the pet puppies in a litter as it does the show puppies in the same litter! Just another point to consider.

Moreover, people need to realize that if it only says 'replacement puppy' and nothing else - that's what you get. If you don't want a replacement puppy (I for one am happy with my one dog and don't need / want another right now) then you're out of luck.

I don't think that the changes I stated above are for the COE breeders of this board. Even if your contracts didn't state it as above (or something like it), I know they would discuss it with the pup owners as Sharon said and come to some mutual agreement.

It's more for those of the board considering getting a puppy and might read that statement over without giving it much thought. What does it actually mean and how would it impact your family. We get posts all the time about how "the breeder will only give me another puppy" (and I use the term 'breeder' lightly in those cases :p). For them, this discussion is a very important read.