Changing the Canadian Standard

[TrishB]

All members of the Rottweiler Club of Canada http://www.rottclub.ca/standard.html and those who show in Canada should be aware of the pending vote to change the standard of the Rottweiler here in Canada.

The drive behind it is to align itself more closely with the FCI http://www.usrcweb.org/fcistand.html standard. The 3 main changes are:

- allowing a natural tail and applying a standard for it, to which it will be judged (neither requiring nor penalizing the docked or natural tail)
- change to the temperament description
- not allowing any missing teeth

I HIGHLY encourage all RCC members to vote! If you don't vote, you have no right to complain about the changes when they are passed (either for or against). You should have already received your ballots in the mail. I mailed mine back this morning. :)

[Humane Educator]

If the breed standard were changed to include non-docked tails, it would go a long way to help prevent the suffering of numerous Rottweilers. We have a huge problem with backyard breeders trying to dock tails cheaply by putting elastics around the puppies' tails. We (at the animal shelter) have to put down so many puppies we rescue because their rear-ends are severely infected. The people who do this cruel act, if we catch them, are barely punished. If the breed standard were changed to allow Rottweilers to keep a long tail, then slowly the change would filter down into the backyard breeder community and perhaps many puppies would be saved. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE vote to allow this.

[Carina43]

Well, I am all for allowing natural tails! I never thought about people tying off puppies' tails, that is horrible.
One day I want a Rottie plus tail....

Trish, what changes are proposed for the temperament standard? Just curious, and I really couldn't tell by comparing the two descriptions. Thanks!

[TrishB]

Hi Carina,

Well, this is a hot topic, for various reasons.

First of all, the tail. People have very strong feelings about this. Personally, I have no problem with it. I prefer the docked tail, but at the same time, see no reason why a natural tail can't be shown. In order for a natural tail to be shown, there has to be a standard for it to be judged upon. That is what this proposal is addressing. IT STILL ALLOWS FOR DOCKING. So please don't think it implies differently. Simply, if you import a dog or bitch from a European country, you'll now be able to put Canadian titles on your dogs. :)

The teeth - well - that's clear cut.

The other one is the temperament. Ours will mirror the FCI standard less the 'fond of children'. Not that they're not fond of children, but we don't want some yahoo thinking that means they're babysitters either. :p The most hotly discussed word seems to be the addition of 'placid'. Some like it, others don't. It seems to be more of a 'this is what the word actually means, but this is what people THINK it means' issue.

Well - all of this was up for discussion for quite a long time. Now it's up for the vote. If you have an opinion and you're an RCC member, be sure to vote!

[Humane Educator]

Just an hour ago we had another Rottweiler come into the shelter with a half-docked tail -- the end dangling half off. Yep, another rubber band docking attempt. Not only has that animal been in excrutiating pain for the last several weeks, but we also have to use much needed funds to finish the amputation.

Another consideration may be of note:

Consider how dogs use their tails to communicate. As most dog people know, the position of the tail and the motion of it have different meanings in a dog's body language. They can be trying to communicate dominance, submission, a play drive or aggression. Not having a tail means that the individual dog cannot communicate to other dogs properly, and other dogs cannot read the signs the animal is giving. This can be problematic from a communication perspective.

Also of note: I spoke with a woman a few months back whose family was considering the adoption of a Husky cross puppy at the shelter. She was concerned about the puppy's tail knocking off the items on her coffee tail and asked if Husky's tails can be docked. It really makes one question the reasoning behind docking in the first place. I kindly suggested that the lady remove the items from the coffee table or not let the dog in the livingroom.

[Carina43]

Well - the tail thing has been discussed at legnth here before...the general consensus being it's OK (by a vet) for teensy puppies, but a nasty amputation on an older dog. Having had a Nottweiler who lost half her tail in an accident, I can tell you she wasn't real happy or comfortable when it was healing.
BTW, hello there, Humane E. :)

And I agree on the communication thing. Rottweilers (ones I've had & know) can be a bit pushy and overwhelming for some shyer dogs. Perhaps a tail would help.

Temperament - I am not sure John or Jane Q. Public pays much attention to the standard. "Placid" is not a word I'd use to describe the "typical" Rottweiler - calm, perhaps, but placid implies a passivity. Perhaps whoever translated from the German could have used a better word...

Good with children? Sure. IF having a stable temperament to begin with. IF socialised early with kids. IF well trained. IF supervised. IF not being in possession of a high prey drive (see well trained...) IF the kids know how to act around dogs. Rottweilers are not a dog I'd recommend to most people as the ideal dog with children, for sure! Compared to, say, a Bassett Hound, Corgi, Standard Poodle - I can think of lots of less challenging breeds! I actually try dissuading most people from owning Rotties when people make comments about how cool they think they are.

[roscoe]

This is not a tail docking discussion. I for one, have no interest in discussing animal rights. If your sole purpose for joining these forums is to discuss animal rights, I'd strongly suggest you delete the bookmark to the forums.

Thank you for your valued participation.

[damp]

Originally posted by Carina43

Good with children? Sure. IF having a stable temperament to begin with. IF socialised early with kids. IF well trained. IF supervised. IF not being in possession of a high prey drive (see well trained...) IF the kids know how to act around dogs. Rottweilers are not a dog I'd recommend to most people as the ideal dog with children, for sure! Compared to, say, a Bassett Hound, Corgi, Standard Poodle - I can think of lots of less challenging breeds! I actually try dissuading most people from owning Rotties when people make comments about how cool they think they are.

I may involve my self in a discussion I can’t explain or end in English :o (I see in the other thread, you all have problems an different opinions of the English words. LOL)

But I think I understand IF, or I should say, I don’t understand the IF’S ;)

There are no ”ifs” in the FCI standard. The dog must have a stable temperament, and therefore it is good with kids… or it’s out of standard. A stable dog will draw the lines with a warning growl, so even a 1 year old child will understand when enough is enough …(I am not saying you should let a child alone with any dog)

The Rottweiler is eager to work, the standard says. A dog without drives is not eager to work and out of standard.

The standard also says the Rottweiler is powerful.

Yes you are right… a powerful, stable tempered dog with high drives is not recommendable for all.

When I read the FCI standard (in Danish) I think it good, but I understand that many dogs are not living up to the standard regarding temperament and also many owners are not living up to the responsibility to own an Rottweiler.

[damp]

Originally posted by TrishB


Ours will mirror the FCI standard less the 'fond of children'. Not that they're not fond of children, but we don't want some yahoo thinking that means they're babysitters either. :p The most hotly discussed word seems to be the addition of 'placid'. Some like it, others don't. It seems to be more of a 'this is what the word actually means, but this is what people THINK it means' issue.

I do understand that…but I think most yahoos don’t care about the standard.

I think the standard is a set of rules to judge by and for breeders a goal to aim for in their breeding program.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by damp
I do understand that…but I think most yahoos don’t care about the standard.

I think the standard is a set of rules to judge by and for breeders a goal to aim for in their breeding program.

Agreed. However, standards are no longer just as a description for breeders to adhere to. They are now being looked to as proof of stability, drives and intent when breeds are considered for restriction and banning. Therefore, our standards must also address 'yahoos' who may misinterpret or hold us to the letter, our breed descriptions as they perceive them.

[Humane Educator]

Dear Roscoe:

"- allowing a natural tail and applying a standard for it, to which it will be judged (neither requiring nor penalizing the docked or natural tail)"

Sorry, I thought this phrase meant that people were considering changing the docked tail -- hence a tail-docking related discussion. I apologize profusely if I had misunderstood the nature of this discussion. I also have no intention of discussing animal rights. It was my intention to discuss animal welfare and how the docked tail as a standard can have repercussions down the line. Perhaps this could be a consideration for those who are undecided about allowing a natural tail to the breed.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

[roscoe]

Originally posted by Humane Educator
Just an hour ago we had another Rottweiler come into the shelter with a half-docked tail -- the end dangling half off. Yep, another rubber band docking attempt. Not only has that animal been in excrutiating pain for the last several weeks, but we also have to use much needed funds to finish the amputation.

Your response offers nothing what so ever to the topic at hand.

[Major]

I am the one moving it. I have moved it here.

[BostonRott]

Let me just add one thing re: rubber bands..........among breeders, this is called banding the tails. It is done in the same time frame as cutting tails (by a vet). A rubber band is applied at the base of the tail, tied VERY tightly, and within 3-5 days, the tails just fall off. I did both of my litters this way. No infection, no extra cleaning.....tails simply died and fell off.

Were I planning to dock another litter, this is how I would do it again.......the pups don't have to go to the vet, no sutures to bother mum, and the rubber bands don't seem to bother mum one bit.

However, I for one LOVE the tails, and will be leaving them on my next litter..........what a difference they make in the performance and readability of the working dog. Vikka will leave Froli in the dust on the agility course........once we're ready.

[roscoe]

Originally posted by BostonRott
Let me just add one thing re: rubber bands..........among breeders, this is called banding the tails. It is done in the same time frame as cutting tails (by a vet).

Thank you Gretchen for your valued input. I agree, if done correctly, there are no advirse effects. The point of my participation in this topic is to keep it on course.

We posted a poll sometime ago closely addressing this issue, your welcome to visit the Poll