Breeding OFA Fair

[TrinityRun]

From a closed thread it was stated "Our vet says a "fair" dog is never supposed to be bred."

I think the OP may have either misunderstood their vet's position on this, or that statement was only the *personal opinion* of that vet.

Make no mistake though, OFA Fair, Good and Excellent are considered free from disease and are ALL eligible to be bred. Fair indicates only minor irregularities in the hip joint conformation.

As with any breeding, it's important to exam the breadth of OFA history as well as the depth. But to rule an excellent dog out of the breeding program simply because their rating was Fair would be a mistake. There must be more to it than that.

[LaurieB]

Perhaps it was the vet's personal opinion. I prefer to have NO irregularities in the hip joint conformation, though. Don't you?

[Judi W]

A fair with strong (80% or more) of sibs and parents sibs is much to be preferred over any number of excellents with shallow penetration of good hips in the family.

[TrinityRun]

Originally posted by LaurieB
Perhaps it was the vet's personal opinion. I prefer to have NO irregularities in the hip joint conformation, though. Don't you?

It used to be OFA was just pass or fail - there were no grades of Fair, Good and Excellent. Far too many place emphasis on breeding "the rating." They believe Good is good therefore Excellent is even better and Fair isn't even close to the other two - it's somehow not sufficient.

As has been stated, much more must go into a breeding then what one sees on the surface. Fair is free of disease. Fair *is* breedable.

[frontierrots]

I personall prefer to not breed fairs. BUT in the event I do I NEVER breed two fairs. In myopinion fairs should onlybe bred to goods or excellents who have siblings that are goods and/or excellent

A fair is the aprox equivilant of an HD+/- (HD- or HD frei being the equivalant of excellent and goods) and I'd never breed two HD+/- together either

OFA has an article on hip breedings somewhere and it said that fairs should nt be bred together as it produces a much higher rate of dysplastic dogs than good to fair or excellent to fair

As previously stated though siblings ratings are more important than individual ratings alone

[TrinityRun]

While I understand where you are coming from, Diane I take what OFA says with a grain of salt - especially where their statistical findings are. There are simply too many dogs who fail who's findings never make it into the database. Skews those findings, IMO.

[lblax]

the big picture really means more than just what the parents are rated.. you really need to look at the hips of as many of the dogs in the pedigree and line breedings as possible and also the off spring of those dogs !!! and it is a lot of work.... but i personally would not breed a fair rated dog period why water down the genetic pool?

[TrishB]

Personally, I wouldn't breed a fair, but thats just MHO. We say it so often - NOT breeding one dog is NOT going to hurt the breed. ;)

[samanthac]

Originally posted by LaurieB
Perhaps it was the vet's personal opinion. I prefer to have NO irregularities in the hip joint conformation, though. Don't you?

Well, I think we'd all like to have no irregularities. But hips are about so much more than just the parents. You also want to look at the grandparents and great grandparents as well as other litters from the parents. OFA Fair is NOT a thing to be looked down upon. It is still passing with very minor irregularity and if bred properly can produce dogs with decent hips.

My boys dam is an OFA Fair and his sire is an OFA Good. My boy as well as the rest of the pups in the litter are OFA Good so far. From what I understand if you have a Fair, you breed to a Good or an Excellent.

Since most dogs are Fair ratings I think we have to stop this notion that they are somehow defective. Otherwise a lot of really good dogs out there would get overlooked and lines would not be improved. People with Fair's need to breed out to improve the hips in their lines.

I personally have no problem with a Fair. I have seen lines that have Fair bitches that consistently put out Good and Excellent ratings when carefully bred. Conversely I have seen lines that have Good or Excellent bitches throw failing hips here and there even when very carefully bred.

And this is coming from someone who had a severly dysplastic rescue.

[frontierrots]

Who said most dogs are fairs??? That is so not true. Good is average hip structure free of HD, excellent is above average hip structure free of HD and fair is below average hip structure free of HD

Again sibling pass/fail rates are of more importance to the big picture than any one individual. Are all the siblings also fairs? Did any not pass and why? (there is a big difference between unilateral-1 hip only- mild with no bone changes and a mild with bone changes in both hips!) Or are all the siblings good or excellent and this dog is the only fair? That makes a huge difference in the genetics

[Patty1231]

I believe any breeding that falls outside of what the Germans have established should be unacceptable. That's why there are dogs that look like "American Rottweilers" - if we love our breed, we should be sticking to pre-established breed standards. Any dog with less than a Good OFA should not be bred. Leave the breeding to the experienced breeders - there will always be plenty of Rottweilers for everyone.

[Sansano]

Originally posted by Patty1231
Any dog with less than a Good OFA should not be bred. Leave the breeding to the experienced breeders - there will always be plenty of Rottweilers for everyone.

That's laughable. The people who are discussing these things in this thread ARE experienced breeders.

If one does the research into the lineage of the dog I think breeding a 'fair' dog is a very acceptable practice. It's much too simple to state "I wouldn't breed a fair" especially when one isn't even a breeder. I would trust a dog bred by Diane or Lauren any day regardless if one of the parents had a fair rating.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by Patty1231
I believe any breeding that falls outside of what the Germans have established should be unacceptable. That's why there are dogs that look like "American Rottweilers" - if we love our breed, we should be sticking to pre-established breed standards. Any dog with less than a Good OFA should not be bred. Leave the breeding to the experienced breeders - there will always be plenty of Rottweilers for everyone.

I don't agree with the 'American looking Rottweiler'. There is simply no such thing. I've seen many German bred and American and Canadian bred dogs all beside eachother. They all look like Rottweilers.

I normally chalk up comments like "He must be XXX bred because his XXX is bigger / smaller / broader / deeper / etc." to those who don't know anything about the breed.

And compairing the OFA ratings to the German ratings are not the same. Dogs that pass here might fail there and visa versa. It happens all the time.

In general - a 'Fair' rating does raise some flags. When it does, the breeder must be that much more selective with their breeding program and take responsibility for the fall out. Extra care must be taken. Those with the knowledge required will make the right decision.

[samanthac]

Originally posted by frontierrots
Who said most dogs are fairs??? That is so not true.

I saw this on the OFA site back in June when I was downloading the info for Disel's prelim. Of course, now that I need it I cannot find that info anywhere. Fair had the highest number of ratings, followed by Good and then Excellent. I will call OFA tomorrow if I can get a chance and see if they can direct me to that information.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by Sansano
That's laughable. The people who are discussing these things in this thread ARE experienced breeders.

Which is why those of us who aren't experienced wouldn't breed a fair! ;) I think that's a good thing! :D

Experienced breeders who know their lines backwards and frontwards would have a better idea of how a Fair would interact with a Good within their lines. But it is an experienced breeders decision to make, as it does carry higher risk. I'm happy to leave those types of decisions up to them. ;) :D