How To Become A Good Breeder

[TrishB]

1. Research your breed. Know it's history, the reason they were bred, their drives, their requirements.

2. Find a responsible, ethical, Code Of Ethics (COE) breeder with years of breeding success (titled dogs on both sides of their names, involved with the breed, member in good standing with clubs, all health certifications, etc.)

3. Have that person become your mentor. Learn everything there is to learn and then some. This could take years.

4. Find a good, experienced with breeding veterinarian. Learn everything you can.

5. Obtain a high quality, health certified parents, linage matching your goals - puppy.

What else would you add? I know there's tons.... :)

[sophie's-mom]

Originally posted by TrishB
2. Find a responsible, ethical, Code Of Ethics (COE) breeder with years of breeding success (titled dogs on both sides of their names, involved with the breed, member in good standing with clubs, all health certifications, etc.)

Make sure you define your terms BEFORE beginning a relationship with this person. Everything on the OUTSIDE could indicate COE, responsible, etc. Dog shows, titles....what have you.......and then upon CLOSER examination you say to yourself......OH MY GOSH.....this is just a HIGH PRICED back yard breeder!!!!!!

Just be sure you research the BREEDER, too!!!!! DON'T just look at the dogs and shows and titles!!!!! ASK OTHERS ABOUT THE "BREEDER"

[LynnS]

The more I learn the more I realize that the truly good breeders out there have made this a lifetime passion.

I also know that there are many different opinions as to what constitutes breedability although most agree that titling your dog and obtaining proper health certifications are a bare minimum.

I find it depressing when I see beautiful show dogs without the correct temperament (and I don't mean that they are weak nerved).

Although I am not a breeder and never will be I do respect breeders who prove their lines with real working titles (not just obedience) as well as in conformation.

Maybe I am just having a bad day but I think there is such a vast difference between owning, showing and working a dog and becoming a breeder. Most don’t have the time, money or knowledge (myself included).

In short I think making a list of "what it takes" makes breeding sound like baking a cake (no pun intended).

[spidey]

I think making a list of "what it takes" makes breeding sound like baking a cake

I see your point, but to be fair, one of the only ways we have to accurately communicate things to each other is our knack for distilling something complicated down into something less complicated. And in some sense, it is like baking a cake, there are ingredients which are essential for making a good cake (eggs, flour, sugar), and ingredients which have no place in any cake (lasagna, gravy, chili). I don't think Trish is suggesting that we can make a list of every single quality possessed by all good breeders (impossible, since they're all different in some ways), but we most certainly can make a list of some of the qualities good breeders have in common, which lead to their being good breeders.

IMO I'd rather see a big long list of "what makes a good breeder" rather than just say "there are too many factors to even make a list". We can't possibly ever list EVERYTHING that makes a good breeder, but we can most certainly list lots of things that do.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by LynnS
In short I think making a list of "what it takes" makes breeding sound like baking a cake (no pun intended).

Ah, that would be a bun in the oven! ;)

Seriously though, the reason for this post is that people need to know what it is that we're thinking of when we say that you need a mentor, you need to be educated, you need experience, you need professionals to teach you, etc.

Never mind learning about the mechanics of breeding, bitches cycles, pregancy, whelping, puppy handling, complications, assessing, evaluating, etc.

I really think that individuals new to the idea of breeding have no idea of the huge task they're about to take on.

[LynnS]

IMO I'd rather see a big long list of "what makes a good breeder" rather than just say "there are too many factors to even make a list". We can't possibly ever list EVERYTHING that makes a good breeder, but we can most certainly list lots of things that do.

Point well taken and I think that this has been done a few times.
And I also realize that Trish prob posted this to provide information to others...

Maybe I was introducing my own agenda into this thread inappropriately :D

[TrishB]

Part of the problem instilling this kind of thought into someone is that they've heard other stories of easy money, no problems, no fuss.

We've all been privy to someone who had a female, bred her to a male they found, had pups, no problems and sold them for $200 each. Happens all the time!

Sadly, people don't brag about the bitches that have false pregancies, c-sections, lost litters, lost bitches, injured males, $$$$ vet bills, etc.

A good dose of reality provided by us might just be the ticket. ;)

[fbkeays]

Originally posted by TrishB
Part of the problem instilling this kind of thought into someone is that they've heard other stories of easy money, no problems, no fuss.

Sadly, people don't brag about the bitches that have false pregancies, c-sections, lost litters, lost bitches, injured males, $$$$ vet bills, etc.

A good dose of reality provided by us might just be the ticket. ;)

I have never bred a litter, but I sure have had my name down for countless litters that didn't happen. I think the saddest was a litter that the dam was V-rated and one of the top obedience bitches in the breed. I saw the sire a few years earlier at an USRC show and he just took my breath away. The bitch wouldn't go into labor. They did everything possible to induce labor unfortunately it didint' work- the pups were delievered by C-section, two were still-born and the third was barely was alive, but didn't make it. In this case, minutes mattered. I cried on the phone with the breeders when they called me.
I had to wait through 3 breedings and 9 months before I got my first show dog. I probably went through at least a dozen other breeding that didn't happen (didn't take, aborted, reasorbed, still born and singleton). At one point I truly considered myself cursed.

[fbkeays]

Originally posted by TrishB

3. Have that person become your mentor. Learn everything there is to learn and then some. This could take years.

When I first started to go to shows there was one breeder that also did obedience- the only one in my breed club. She was very opinionated and tried to educate the new comers to the breed. There are a few things that she told me and another woman that just got her first show bitch. She said only breed if you can buy back and take care of a whole litter for the rest of their lives- a litter of 12! She said don't breed a litter unless you are prepared to put down every single of of them for poor temperament. These are two things that she said you have to be prepared for.

[laurlitt]

Originally posted by LynnS
I find it depressing when I see beautiful show dogs without the correct temperament (and I don't mean that they are weak nerved).

I agree with you Lynn. In my opinion being a good breeder is more than following a COE. For starters there is certainly the health clearances (that's a no brainer). Do I think a Championship is required... absolutely not. In fact I more often than not look away from that title in the front of the dog or don't necessarily give it all that much weight. Given enough time and money many dogs can get a championship (and I've seen it done). A dog with correct conformation doesn't necessarily have to be a show dog or even do well at a show (depending on what the latest show look is).

I also don't give much, if any, weight to the TT, CGC, HIT, etc. titles that seem to show up at the end of most Ch. dog's name. To me they are just filler titles to make the dog look like more than they may actually be. Do I think they are important exercises for the dog to experience... of course I do, but by themselves they don't add any value to me.

I believe a dog's true judge of temperment comes from the work and I don't necessarily mean obedience. Recently I was hit over the head w/ this revalation. I've been training my young girl alongside a couple who breed Giant Schnauzers. They have been heavily involved w/ the breed ring and recently decided they wanted to have the complete dog by putting Sch. titles on them. So they started off w/ a couple of puppies from their breeding. About 1.5 years into their training the female is showing weak nerves, lots of defense, no confidence, and no heart for the sport. Do I think this dog should be bred? Absolutely NOT. Do I think she could pass a temperment test, CGC, CD, etc. YES I do... with training. Had this dog not been involved w/ Sch. these traits most likely wouldn't have come out and if they did they could have been masked by training and socializing. (Note: this female I talk of was never worked too hard or too much pressure on her... it's her genetics)

This is when it ocurred to me the reason behind a Breed Suitability Test (or Ztp in Germany). It is a true test of the dog and I think the BST (which comprises of some basic protection work) and of course Sch. are a better test of breedability. Any dog with the correct temperment, drives, and conformation should be able to pass a BST.

In my opinion there are way too many COE breeders who don't evaluate the true temperment of the dog.

Those are my thoughts.

[cucciolone]

Originally posted by laurlitt
I also don't give much, if any, weight to the TT, CGC, HIT, etc. titles that seem to show up at the end of most Ch. dog's name. To me they are just filler titles to make the dog look like more than they may actually be.... I believe a dog's true judge of temperment comes from the work and I don't necessarily mean obedience.... In my opinion there are way too many COE breeders who don't evaluate the true temperment of the dog.

Brava, Laurlitt. I could not agree with you more. The Rottweiler is a strong working breed- there seem to be far too many COE breeders that limit their aspirations to a conformation title and an elementary temperament test or two.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by laurlitt
This is when it ocurred to me the reason behind a Breed Suitability Test (or Ztp in Germany). It is a true test of the dog and I think the BST (which comprises of some basic protection work) and of course Sch. are a better test of breedability. Any dog with the correct temperment, drives, and conformation should be able to pass a BST.

In my opinion there are way too many COE breeders who don't evaluate the true temperment of the dog.

I may have just fell in love with you!! :)

[LynnS]

This is when it ocurred to me the reason behind a Breed Suitability Test (or Ztp in Germany). It is a true test of the dog and I think the BST (which comprises of some basic protection work) and of course Sch. are a better test of breedability. Any dog with the correct temperment, drives, and conformation should be able to pass a BST.

Thanks Laurlitt - that was the point I was trying to make although I do think that the original intent of the thread was more general.

[LavenderRott]

My collie was a well-bred German dog. Her mother was a European Champion and had passed all the tests for breeding. Before we were offered any kind of papers for the pups, they had to be inspected.

Let me tell you, I have met cardboard boxes with more personality then mom had. She certainly couldn't have herded a single sheep across a hallway.

When I get my puppy, I want the whole package.