is breeding necessary to keep a dog fertile

[Jaegergirl]

ok, it sounds ridiculous to me so i thought i'd ask the "experts."

i was talking to my cousin yesterday. apparently she thinks that my sister's JRT is so cute (bleck..he's a beast with no manners!) that she wants one too. so she calls the "breeder" of my sister's dog (and yes, these people are BYB to the hilt) and, of course, they have more puppies (my sister got her 6 weeks old puppy on new years day). these people are probably breeding this poor girl every time she's in heat. i try to convince my cousin that she probably doesn't want to buy from them but she doesn't care...she's already visited the pups and has picked out hers (which she will be getting shortly.. as soon as the puppy turns 6 weeks old!!!) so when i mention how sad it was that the girl gets bred so much, my cousin, in defense of the "breeder," tells me she heard there's a fertility expert who says you must breed your females every heat (or everyother one) to keep them fertile. now, i know nothing about breeding (other than the fact that i have no plans on ever doing it) but is there any truth to that statement? maybe i'm wrong but i wouldn't think is was heathy for the mom. also, can pups born to an "over bred" female have any heath problems down the road? thanx.

[Sharon Marples]

Geeeeesh! Leave it to a BYB to come up with a story like that!

Your cousin should run (not walk) away from this breeder! This falsehood just shows what type of people they are. I'm sure that she already has her mind made up and for what it's worth, she is probably lucky that she is getting a JRT from a BYB over any other type of breed because they have relatively few health problems to date.

Notice, I said "to date." With BYB's such as this continually breeding, inbreeding, etc., the health problems will soon crop up, I can guarantee it! Pretty soon they will go from a healthy breed to one that joins the rest of the popular breeds that have had health problems introduced by breeders such as these. I would challenge them to provide the name and phone number of this so-called "fertility" expert!

Now, for a simple answer to your question...........NO, the bitch does not need to be bred every heat season or every year to remain fertile. I have had 5 and 6 year old bitches who have never been bred before get pregnant.

[Jaegergirl]

thanks, sharon. yeah, my cousin is very pig headed so nothing i say will change her mind.

to clarify, it wasn't the breeder who told her about the "fertility expert", it was just something my cousin heard from "someone she knew". regardless, these people are the epitomy of BYB and it's obvious they are just breeding their female for the $$...they don't show the dogs nor do they train them outside their home, they sell the pups for $400 a piece...they don't don't take the female to the vet during the pregnancy nor do they take the puppies to the vet once they're born (the husband read on the internet how to doc tails so he does it "to save $$". he also buys the first round of shots and does it himself so the pups never see a vet until the new owner takes them). so they really don't have any "overhead" and just pocket the $ they get from the sale of the pups. pretty sad.

is breeding so often detrimental to the female?

[Sharon Marples]

is breeding so often detrimental to the female?

In a word, YES!

[Jaegergirl]

thanks, that's what i thought.:)

[frontierrots]

There IS a canine fertility expert (Hutchinson?) who says it IS better to breed our bitch back to back for a few litters then spay her and claims it is healthier for the uterus. He claims that heat cycles damage the uterus each time one occurs and it is best to get all the breedings done in a row.

Regardless of his "expertise"I do NOT practice this. :(

[BostonRott]

Actually, Ian Billinghurst says the same thing, that the uterus is meant to be used and is most healthy and best ready for it's next litter after having had one, i.e. breed back to back. And yes, Hutchison is one of the country's most revered fertility experts and he says the same thing.

I've had this very discussion with my own veterinary repro expert and they too support this, though by NO MEANS do they recommend following such a practice.

Knowing that I wanted another litter out of Froli, and that I wanted to spay her once I got what I wanted (a female), I bred her back to back, resulting in litters of 9 and 9, and Froli is none the worse for the wear. She'll be spayed in 3 days. :D

Another interesting point I've heard many times is that it's better to breed the first litter while the bitch is young, i.e. first litter after hips are done at 2, and then proceed forward with desired titles/campaigning, with subsequent litters later if desired. Don't know the reasoning behind this, but I've heard it from both respected vets and longtime Rottweiler breeders (25+ yrs).

Anyway, no, a bitch does not need to be bred often to maintain her fertility, but supposedly it is healthier to breed back to back, despite most COE recommendations.

[TrishB]

The caveat to breeding back to back would be:

- as long as the bitch is in good condition physically
- did not have any complications during
-> pregancy
-> labor
-> nursing
-> weaning

This practice is then STOPPED at 3 litters, sometimes 4, where the bitch is then spayed.

True breeders who breed back-to-back evaluate the bitch at that time. They then stop!

BYB's use it as an excuse to breed as long as they'll get pregnant. :(

[poohbearsmom]

When I was attempting to get an actual whole litter from Pooh (lol), he did make reference to "dumpster dogs" always being so prolific.... his statement was that the uterus needs to be used in order to be in good working order, or words to that effect.... so, when folks take the time to "do things right" and wait till a bitch is over 2, (in my case, over 4), it actually can take time for the uterus to "wake up and smell the coffee" (his words, not mine...lol).... :)

He suggested back to back breedings, which I did... and now I'm grateful that she didn't take, given the way things turned out. ;)

It makes sense to me, however, I can't see how back to back to back to back, could be good for the bitch...The nutritional issues alone are scary enough if you actually like your bitch.

This is when personal ethics come into play, IMO. When you use a bitch for her eggs, she deserves a retirement with pension after you've accomplished what you set out to do.....and if it doesn't work, early retirement is a good option. ;)

Gretchen... I had a breeder tell me that she often breeds a bitch just after OFA's in order to get more depth, spring in the chest, thus "maturing the bitch" so she can be shown in a more expeditious manner... and, after my vet's explanation regarding fertility, and having read some of Ian's material, I'd be hardpressed to disagree with that particular point...

[frontierrots]

Oh I too have done a back to back BUT Hutchenson recommends back to back to back for whatever the number of litters you want frm the bitch.

In my personal case- my bitches are allowed 3 litters maximum (if that) and never after 6 years old, so that would not be too bad. But what about those breeders that want 6-8 litters out of their bitches or those that routinely breed untilthe bitch is 8 or no longer conceives? THAT is what is scarey about those recomendations..

I DO know horses conceive best when bred 4 weeks after birthing year after year until you no longer want foals out of them. Since they are pregnant for 11 months this means that they are pregnant and/or nursing for years. Many larger farms start breeding mares at 3 years old and only cease when she no longer takes. I personallyknow of several Morgan farms with 25 year old broodmares that have foaled every year since they were 3 years old. The reason being (and I know this from working at a breeding stable) if you skip a year it is sometimes impossible to get the reproduction train started again

Luckily for us, in most cases dogs are more forgiving

[TrishB]

Agreed on the horses. But they have 11 months of pregnancy. That's a long time to slowly progress through the pregnancy and keep condition. They only have one foal to nurse - again, making it easier to keep condition.

You get a poor Rottie bitch with 13 hungry pups latched on to her - trust me, she's going to need some recovery time!! LOL :)

[Jaegergirl]

for your replies. :) at least i know there's some truth to what my cousin heard. too bad i can't convince her to find a puppy elsewhere tho because the "breeders" she is buying from are up to no good.

[BostonRott]

Could you educate yourself on some of the health issues of the breed, and play up the angle of "do you really want to lose a dog at a young age to XXX??"

[Judi W]

I guess my only question about this is that if you've bred a bitch twice and still didn't get what you wanted, why continue breeding her? If you did get what you wanted, then I would expect one to move on towards building the next generation. Good homes are hard to come by and I would think a well-loved bitch deserves more of a life than having babies.

Also, if the bitch is going to be spayed, what is the big concern about the long term health of the uterus? Now in some breeds of few numbers all this would make some sense as they are trying to build up a breed, but few numbers is certainly not a problem with the Rottweiler. The Rottweiler breed needs quality, not quantity.

[BostonRott]

To me, the health of the uterus is part of the overall health of the bitch, as well as the experience of the pregnancy/whelping/rearing. If the bitch/uterus is healthier, the entire process will be easier/safer.

I know plenty of breeders who don't spay unless medically necessary. Personally, I enjoy competing too much to continue to lose 4 months per year to heat cycles and false pregnancies, or missing trials b/c of an in season bitch. Therefore, Thurs a.m., Frol goes under the knife.