Planning to Breed?

[Nancy Estes]

This is from DFW Cares list. Although it's about Chows, I thought it was a great way to reply to those folks who think they want to *get into breeding*:
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"Your email requesting information on finding a chow female to breed to your male was forwarded to me, as I work for a veterinarian and am very familiar with the chow breed, through our efforts in breeding
top winning chows for the show ring and also rescuing homeless chows from animal shelters across the state of Texas.

Congratulations on deciding to become a Chow breeder. I'm glad you're willing to make the financial investment it takes to help make the Chow breed a better breed. Chows are a breed that take a lot of hard work to breed. They have many congenital (heritable) conditions that can be passed along to offspring, so it's really important to do some good research first. I want to make sure you have all the information you need before you get started. I am sure that your dog has been kept up to date on his vaccinations, annual physical exams, and
heartworm prevention, but these additional tests are recommended to help reduce the chances that the puppies you bring into this
world will have serious health defects. It may take an investment of $1000 or more to do these, but it's well worth the investment.

First, since your dog is an older dog, and has been bred before, I presume your male has been OFA certified. This most often requires anesthesia, because the vet's office must take x-rays of his hips and elbows when he is perfectly still. The x-rays must then be sent to Missouri, to be read by the radiologists there. The purpose of this test is to reduce the chances your dog will pass along hip dysplasia and elbow problems, which is fairly common in the breed. I would only breed a dog who passes his OFA certifications with either Good or
Excellent hips, as dogs with Fair hips, or hips that cannot pass are likely to create dogs with debilitating arthritis--and you
know Chows only live so long, they shouldn't be painful their entire lives.

Second, I recommend doing some bloodwork on your dog. Chows are noted for hypothyroidism and Addison's disease, two metabolic deficiencies that result in poor health and sometimes even death. A thyroid screen should be sent to the lab at the veterinary school at Michigan State University, because they can test more completely, for signs of thyroid disease that haven't shown up yet. To test for Addison's is more complicated, but a good general chemistry profile would rule out any current abnormalities.

Third, there is a high incidence of heart disease in the breed, as well as bloat. Bloat is actually one of the most common causes of death in Chows. Heart disease is another. You should call your veterinarian and discuss screening, which may include chest x-rays (can be done when you do hip
x-rays), and also an EKG to make sure there are no electrical disturbances in his heart that could cause problems for his offspring.

Fourth, make sure to consult with a local veterinary ophthalmologist regarding CERF qualifications for your dog. There are some eye disorders common in Chows that should be ruled out before you breed this dog. Your veterinarian should be able to recommend a local specialist to you. There are actually some specific DNA tests available these days, although I don't know which ones are available for chows in your area. Your veterinarian should be able to help you determine which are appropriate.

Now that we've discussed medical issues, you need to check your dog's pedigree to make sure none of the parents or grandparents or
great-grand-parents had these problems. This will probably mean contacting his original breeder, and doing a pedigree search which you can do with help of the AKC (check out their web site at www.akc.org--also has good info on health & finding a dog). When you
contact his breeder, be sure to find out for certain if he is allowed to be bred based upon the contract you signed when you bought him--most breeders restrict breeding for pet-quality dogs because they feel the animal would not make it in the show ring. So if you bought him from a breeder, there may be a clause that prohibits you from breeding him--certainly you'd want to know that before you breed him. The breeder may also be able to steer you towards a line you might want to cross your dog with, but keep in mind that you don't want to breed him to any of his sisters/cousins/etc.--that we call inbreeding, and can cause some lethal defects in puppies. You will need to plan to do the same rigorous screening on the female that I've recommended here for the male, including the pedigree search. A breeding quality bitch may cost you anywhere from $800-3000; don't presume more is better, you need to be prepared to have these screening tests done unless the breeder has done so already.

Make sure to research the pedigree of the female closely for conformation and health
problems so you will have a good investment. You will also want to make sure to have both animals tested for brucellosis, a sexually
transmitted disease of dogs that can cause miscarriage and infertility, and occasionally can infect humans. This test needs to be done prior to breeding.

This brings us to one of the reasons a rescue dog would not be appropriate breeding animal. Most of the time, rescue dogs come without a pedigree--so you can't trace lineage for health problems. A responsible rescue will not place a dog to breed, because the fact that a rescue exists means there are too many of the breed out there
without homes. I do know that West Texas Chow Rescue has over 2 dozen purebred chows currently available for adoption.

If you decide to breed, you must make the commitment to the lives of every puppy you are responsible for bringing into the world for life. That means, if someone who buys a dog from you can't keep it, you need to have a plan to take the pup back until such time as you can find it a new home. Many breeders do not make this commitment, and as a result, hundreds of Chows are euthanized in
shelters across the nation because there are not enough rescues to take them all. If you bring pups into the world, you will want to
make sure you know they are getting a home at least as good if not better than yours. And chows can sometimes have up to 8 to 10
puppies. That's a lot of homes to find! You
will want to start a list of folks who are willing to buy a dog from you, and make sure you have them sign a contract to spay or neuter the pet puppies, so they won't add to the Chow overpopulation problem already out there.

Another thing you should understand is that some times Chows need C-sections to deliver puppies--not all the time, mind you, but some times. This can be a critical procedure and you need to discuss with your veterinarian before you breed his/her protocol for this. All dogs undergoing C-sections should be given gas (isoflurane)
anesthesia, IV fluids, and so on, and despite this, some dogs do not make it thru surgery. If you are not prepared to lose
a dog and all her puppies under anesthesia for a c-section, then breeding is not a good idea. As for the female, Chow tend to cycle
about once every 6-8 months, and should be on the fourth heat cycle and at full adult weight at least prior to the first breeding, and should be allowed to have a heat cycle between each litter of puppies so she can regain her reserves. Because Chows are so short lived, that means you shouldn't plan to have more than 2 to 3 litters, maximum, before having her spayed, and your male neutered.

You will need to be prepared to keep the two dogs apart for the 3 weeks of her heat cycles when she shouldn't be bred. Even a half-hour together in the back yard could result in an unplanned litter that might be harmful to her health.

Finally, you may want to consider that if you do breed your male, that he may change in his attitude to you and your family. Some male dogs become aggressive to families, others become aggressive to other dogs, and so on. You should be prepared for this change. If you enjoy the bond you have with your dog now, understand that it may never be the same if you add an intact female to the group.

I realize this is a lot of information. As a courtesy to you, I am passing along your request to someone in Texas that I know who has been breeding Chows for years. She is cc'ed on this email, and I am sure would be glad to help you in deciding if your dog's conformation is correct for the breed, and may be able to add other considerations to the list. I'm also including a web address for the Chow Chow Club, Inc. (www.chowclub.org). It is an excellent site to gather more information, and learn about what you should be breeding for in the chow breed. Good luck in your endeavor.
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Nancy

[Mick Trainer]

I like that. Great post Nancy.

Mick.

[Nancy Estes]

It's surprising how often advice given in this way works. Your average Joe Schmoe, if he thinks you're being condescending to him, isn't going to hear a word you say. But if you act like you're really trying to help him out and *blind him with science*, you have a pretty good chance of getting through.

Nancy

[Carina43]

Great!

I too wish that everyone who bred dogs took this sort of care. I have come to regard indiscriminate or thoughtless breeding of dogs & cats as not much short of animal cruelty, in an indirect kind of way.

Heck, even my SO has had a vasectomy! :D

[alexav]

Excellent!!! As alot of you know, I have 2 Chows as well as my Rotties. This is so true for both breeds. (Heck, ALL breeds!)

I dream of a world where all breeding is done with care, dedication, and education. Not just throwing two dogs together and hoping for the best. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is what ruins our breed's health, temperment and reputation.

Please, anyone even considering getting into breeding, take the advice in this and many other articles on this forum. Do it right or don't do it at all. Our beloved breed deserves nothing less.

[RottnKid1]

Nancy, you're absolutely right! It's like using reverse psychology and works so much better than coming on strong with a lot of negative comments. The negative approach often has the opposite effect whereas the positive approach tends to make the person think things through more thoroughly. It also leaves the door open for questions and advice. Even if you don't succeed in changing someone's mind about breeding a litter, at least they'll be more willing to ask for help so they can be guided toward doing things in the best possible way.

Carina, I agree with you, too, and would venture to take it one step further in regard to back yard breeders and puppy mills. It isn't borderline cruelty in an indirect kind of way, but actual cruelty in a very direct way. The bitches are not properly taken care of prior to or after whelping and these poor dogs represent nothing but dollar signs. It's beyond disgusting. There are some accidental breedings where the owner takes responsibility for properly caring for the bitch and pups and at least trying to place them in loving homes. BYB's and puppy mills don't care who buys the pups or for what reasons as long as they get their almighty dollar and it's these people who contribute so much to the bad reputation of Rottweilers and Pit Bulls - and who also "do their best" to ruin other very popular breeds.

[ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: RottnKid1 ]

[Amber Joy]

I have a question:
We live out in the boonies and the vet we go to can only do some of the tests mentioned. That, and my breed doesn't have alot of those defects anyway. Anyone out there have a suggestion for getting the blood test types done, or if they need done at all? Hip dysplasia is the major problem in my breed, as is bloat (you can't test for that, can you, you know, what the chances are kind of test?). Also, is there a way to test for sub-aortic stenosis? Allergies are our biggest problem! My girl is allergic to air, I swear it! Special shampoos, special food, everything because she's "sensitive". Given the breed, people are surprised she's so fragile!

[WorkinDogz]

Originally posted by Amber Joy:
<STRONG>I have a question:
We live out in the boonies and the vet we go to can only do some of the tests mentioned. That, and my breed doesn't have alot of those defects anyway. Anyone out there have a suggestion for getting the blood test types done, or if they need done at all? Hip dysplasia is the major problem in my breed, as is bloat (you can't test for that, can you, you know, what the chances are kind of test?). Also, is there a way to test for sub-aortic stenosis? Allergies are our biggest problem! My girl is allergic to air, I swear it! Special shampoos, special food, everything because she's "sensitive". Given the breed, people are surprised she's so fragile!</STRONG>

Allergies like that alone would eliminate her from breeding Amber

Cardio-clearences and OFA really aren't "optional". Also; bloodwork for VwD and thyroid are as strongly suggested as is OFA and CERF and Cardio-clearence.

[Amber Joy]

Having sensitive skin does NOT eliminate them from breeding, and I know because I've asked around. It is a very common rottweiler problem to have sensitive skin. I give her special food because I want to protect her, and nothing more. I may have exagerated alittle on the "allergic to air" part of it. She is fine for breeding, and the OFA I am going to get done in Chicago if I have to, and the heart test, I was told was optional, and not necessary. Not just by my vet either.

[WorkinDogz]

What's your breed then Amber? Sensitive skin and ALLERGIES that require special food, shampoos and "everything" sure aren't a Rottie's "common" problem not to mention they are 2 very different things.

Someone told you that a Cardio-clearence, VwD test, CERF and thyroid screen weren't necessary?? hmmm.

I hope your girl is "just fine" for breeding if that's what you intend to do...but allergies do certainly make things questionable. You yourself call her "fragile"...why is it important to reproduce fragility? Not every dog of every breed really should be reproduced.

Don't forget the elbows when you OFA too.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz:
<STRONG>why is it important to reproduce fragility? Not every dog of every breed really should be reproduced.</STRONG>

Amen, Sister

[Dei]

There is a quote that I am surely going to use as my signature file:

"The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Stephen Budiansky

Simply because X number of people say A is true doesn't make it so. And with regards to dog breeding, anectdote is dangerous.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that when you have a breed that cannot live a long healthy life without considerable intervention on the parts of owners and vets, that breed DESERVES to go extinct (or at least through a long, carefully designed program of reconstruction). Breeds get to that point by the actions of many individual dog breeders who ignored problems and bred anyway.
And 'fragility' in particular is easy to spread throughtout a breed, easier because it's not so obvious to the owners and breeders that it's a problem. After all, when the dog's fine, it's fine. And it's so cute/pretty/charming/intelligent/brave/etc... Indeed, there are those who argue that modern veterinary medicine makes hardiness optional and that's unethical.

Love your girl, care for her, but please, do not breed her.

[Bruce Lanthier]

Originally posted by Amber Joy:
<STRONG>She is fine for breeding, ...</STRONG>

ALL bitches are fine for breeding but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be bred.
There are plenty of dogs out there that don't NEED special food, special shampoo "special everything" to have a regular life and there is no good reason to breed THEM. Like the lady said, why is it so IMPORTANT to breed THIS fragile dog?

[Carina43]

Amber Joy...you said this about Rottweiler breeders' clubs in another thread:

"I am looking to join one but I haven't found any that I liked, and not because I disagree with their code of ethics. In fact, I would follow it without them. But I haven't found a group I like. Any suggestions?"

Now, I have never bred a dog, but it seems to me that an integral part of any breed club's code of ethics is to preserve & better the breed, and your planning to breed a fragile (unshown?) dog without doing all the health clearances would be a serious breach of those ethics that you say you agree with & would follow.

Just curious.

[ July 22, 2001: Message edited by: Carina43 ]

[alexav]

Originally posted by Amber Joy:
<STRONG> My girl is allergic to air, I swear it! Special shampoos, special food, everything because she's "sensitive". she's so fragile!</STRONG>

Hmmm, I wonder if the people who are interested in buying a pup will want to take the time, expense and care to take on a pup with alergies. These "sensitivities" will surely be passed on to at least half of the litter. As concerned as you are with being ethical, I'm sure you will tell the prospective buyers won't you?

In my experience, it's hard enough to find good homes for even the best of pups let alone those with special needs. Please, think it through. Your bitch sounds like a lovely girl. You'll never forgive yourself if something goes wrong and you lose her. Let the pros do the breeding and take all the chances. (and spend all the money! :D )Take the money you'd be spending on all the genetic tests and have an alergy workup done to get to the bottom of her sensitivities. Having her spayed will also contribute to her longevity and overall wellness.