Genetics

[godfreyc]

BillyDee IMHO, while genetics are 50/50 mom spends much more time with the pups and has a much greater impact on their personality than dad.

[rottweiler_fancier]

Most puppies never even see their father, though if he has a poor temperament, the puppies are likely to have it or if bred, pass it on. The Dam has the bigger impact overall because she's with them for 8 critical weeks of life.

[bear1906]

Aside from personality, how about physical characteristics...let's say from an outcross...

[Thomas Peuschel]

I think genetic´s is not an easy to solve mathematical equation. Theoretically the impact of sire/mother is 50/50, but you never know which 50% of the parents gene´s are mixing. Normally the puppies don´t have contact to their father, so the influence of the mother and not to forget of the breeder is very high for the early socialization/charakter building.
Sometimes it is very exiting to evaluate Genetic´s influence seeing the young dogs developing:

From our recent litter we kept two boys for our own, they are noe 9 month old. One looks more or less like his mother, having the substancy of his father and also his working abilities are more his father´s one (high in defense drive). The other boy looks much more like his father, having his mothers substancy and working abilities (very high in prey drive). Intersting split, isn´t it.

I have to mention, that the differences are not as big as it could be read above, we have been very carefull in selecting the breeding partners having lot´s of similarities in their performance.
My wife and I myself are very satisfied with both of the boys and their ongoing development.
But, they are different in charakter and have to be treated in a different way.

Thomas
Rottweiler "von der Zant"

[Mick Trainer]

Good responce Thomas,

To see the different outcomes and influences Genetics from each parent can have we only need to look at (as Thomas has said) the differnces within litter mates. All have the same sire & dam (we hope :)) but whilst there are similarities there are also a gret many differences. This is where Genetics becomes very confusing as too whicih genes have been placed into the mix, which are dominant and which are recessive etc all greatly alter the out come of the mating. Genetics is very hard to predict.

There is no doubt that 50% of the genetic make up come from each parent, but how those genes click may greatly effect the outcome and why we see dogs that will strongly through themselves or certain traits into all there matings.

Mick.

[bear1906]

Thanks for the replies...The reason I ask is because when I purchased my pup, I didn't get a chance to see the mother, only the father, but now that I know what the sire is like, I regret not seeing the mother to see what my puppy's other 50% looks like...Especially since he seems to be going through a number of changes physically-coat, structure, etc...

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by Koenig:
<STRONG>I also read a study that the longer a pup is with Mom the more stable they become later on, suggesting even 8wks is to short......</STRONG>

I have read that as well... but the flip side is that if pups are left to their litter for too long.. they will develop more pack-skills and may not bond to their owner/handler as well.... the last book sugested removing the pups even as early as 5-6weeks.

while this may not pose a problem for show-types, it would be a horrible result for those desiring a working dog..

-Matt

[German Vanegas]

If the puppies are allowed to stay with the mother for too long, say more than 10 weeks, they will develop a canine pack mentality and will not easily bond with humans. The longer they stay around their kind, the higher is the risk of developing predatorial aggression. That is why early human control and inter-action is so important.

[bear1906]

what about puppies who are taken away very, very early, like @ 3 weeks...What affect does that have?

[bear1906]

many a primitive layman think that this(taken a pup away early) is the way to train them right!

[Judi W]

I haven't jumped in here because I think German has everything well in hand, but I can't resist this one. :)

I can tell you however, that dogs taken away from their litters too early almost always have severe dog aggression problems. Yes, some can bond very tightly to their owners, but it is a dependency type bonding not built of confidence. Others have people aggression as well as dog aggression as they did not learn "their place" at an important age. Tiny pups are usually coddled by their owners which is not good. The dog to dog problems are often so severe that these dogs cannot be around another even for breeding purposes. Several I know have been euthanized. A dog that cannot be in the presence of others of its own species is of little use in the working world and it does not lead a well-balanced life.

Readiness periods in a growing pup's life have been well defined for a very long time.

Dr. J. Paul Scott started the study of puppies in Bar Harbor, Maine. This knowledge was quickly applied to the raising of Guide Dogs. Prior to that time only 9% who were started in training could be trained to become Guides. In 1958 and 1959 all the dogs who had been bred and developed by the new knowledge were as good or better than the best graduated in 1946, and 90% became Guide dogs! For more information on this you might want to read Clarence Pfaffenberger's book "The New Knowledge of Dog Behavior".

[Judi W]

PS
The very best of genetics can be subverted by poor environment, but, good environment is limited in its effect on poor genetics.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Judi W:
<STRONG>
...dogs taken away from their litters too early almost always have severe dog aggression problems. Yes, some can bond very tightly to their owners, but it is a dependency type bonding not built of confidence. Others have people aggression as well as dog aggression as they did not learn "their place" at an important age. Tiny pups are usually coddled by their owners which is not good. The dog to dog problems are often so severe that these dogs cannot be around another even for breeding purposes... </STRONG>

I concur with you... once again ;)

[Burnsway]

Although all my dogs are mixed I will have to agree with you! I got the Rottie mix at 6 weeks, the chowmix from birth and the pom at 7 weeks and I had to strive with alot of extra socializations and I do believe it was due to having them so young. I decided when we took the rottie mix at 6 weeks we had no choice I let my chowmix teach her, her place. She was a big help but If I ever have a choice I would go for 10 weeks as a good time to get a pup!

[Koenig]

Yes, 50/50 get passed on but you have to look at the entire line as well.

Think of it like this: Buy a bag of skittles candy and buy a bag of MM's, one bag is the sire other the dam, the other colors in each bag is a relative (grand parent etc), Know take a equal handfulls from each bag and put them in a bowl, think you'all get the idea.How many MM's of the sire are from his mother side or other relatives?

This is why research is so important, and why manditory breed testing is a must in this country.

Mix this in with enviroment!!! We could clone the best Rottweiler today, give one offspring to the best dog raiser you can think of, the other one to someone who never owned a dog before or is just a idiot!!!! Wo will have the better dog?

I also read a study that the longer a pup is with Mom the more stable they become later on, suggesting even 8wks is to short......


Koenig