VP of usrc dogs used again

[Necie]

Generalizing? Maybe. It's all about making mistakes-and that's a human trait. I have been selfish, I have been ignorant, I have been arrogant. I have done things that I had no business doing and suffered the consequences. Live and learn. Anyone who tells me they have never done anything wrong...never made a mistake...blames everyone and everything but themselves are IDIOTS. I was raised with this lesson, as were my children. RESPONSIBILITY!

Responsible advice? This is why you will never see me reply to a 'my dog bites...' thread. My opinion on those-they should NOT own a rottweiler. Rottie's are a strong breed and in the wrong hands they can be a dangerous weapon. They are not a breed for the irresponsible owner. And don't even get me started if they say the dog bit because of this or that! The dog bit because the poster failed to provide the socialization, training and care that this breed requires. PERIOD!

As far as generalizing American attitude, you are correct-we think we can do what we want, have what we want, when we want it--because we CAN. It is not just about rottie ownership, but does apply to irresponsible rottie owners.

I think as responsible rottweiler owners we need to quit telling people-"Oh, my dog is sweet, my dog is nice, my dog would never hurt anyone." and instead say "I have and will continue to put alot of time and training into my dog to get it this way. Rotties are not for everyone and in the wrong hands my dog would be just as viscous as the ones you read about in the papers and see on the news."

So, yes, as long as people (irresponsible owners) refuse to admit their faults and concede to their failures and continue to believe that it is their RIGHT to own a strong breed that they have no ability to control-I see no end to BSL.

[brodster]

Thanks for the clarification Necie. I see your point and for the most part agree with you about the ownership problem with rottweilers

Just didnt want feelings towards bad ownership to be pointed at one nation of people

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Necie

As far as generalizing American attitude, you are correct-we think we can do what we want, have what we want, when we want it--because we CAN.

Hmmmmm....last time I checked my citizenship was fully intact and can't EVER recall possessing this attitude.

Originally Posted by Necie

Rotties are not for everyone and in the wrong hands my dog would be just as viscous as the ones you read about in the papers and see on the news."

Hmmmmm (again)....so you think Rottweilers as a breed are vicious by nature, or are you referring to yours? If you're talking about the breed, I'd have to vehemently disagree with you on that point. There's no way I'd have a vicious dog of any breed under my roof and, lo and behold, I'll always have a Rottweiler.

The ignorance of statements like this help to promote BSL just as much as anything else. You seem to be giving yourself too much credit and the breed too little.

[JoJo]

As far as generalizing American attitude, you are correct-we think we can do what we want, have what we want, when we want it--because we CAN.

I agree with most of that statement, just because we CAN! IF we have the means to get what we want, when we want then why not? As for us thinking we can do what we want, well then that would make all of us self absorbed, spoiled, irresponsible narcissists. Please speak for yourself.

Rotties are not for everyone and in the wrong hands my dog would be just as viscous as the ones you read about in the papers and see on the news

You are absolutely correct, a Rottweiler is NOT for everyone. With that statement it sounds like you shouldn't own a Rottweiler. That tells me that your dog isn't of sound temperament, not socialized nor trained.

[Necie]

Moondog,

I think you totally misunderstood my post. As far as the 'American Attitude' that I'm speaking of, I am pointing directly at IRRESPONSIBLE rottie owners, indirectly at everyone else. We have all had selfish moments about something-not necessarily the dog we own, but something that we want, we think we have to have, something we believe we deserve. This is the way that irresponsible owners feel-no one is going to tell them that they can't own a rottie, that they can't chain it in the backyard, that they have to train it for anything. You or I may feel this way about a new car or t.v. or a pair of shoes or some such, we scrimp and save or work overtime, but we HAVE to have it. (Isn't there anything you've wanted that bad?) I think that irresponsible rottie owners think this way-their dogs are nothing more than possesions to them and once they have it that's all that matters-it's THEIRS and they can do anything (or nothing) they want with it.

As far as vicious dogs-I am referring to MOST (as I'm sure there are exceptions)-mine, yours, anyone's. Rotties as a breed-NO-I don't believe are vicious by nature-but "IN THE WRONG HANDS" (that was in the sentence you quoted me on) can become that way. A pup with the best potential, given to the WRONG owner (an irresponsible one), who let's say is tied in the backyard, beaten for jumping for attention when the owner takes food/water to it, not given food/water regularly, no socialization, no training, no love-will become a problem dog. THESE are the dogs that bite. Out of fear, resource guarding, whatever...when THIS dog happens to break it's chain or someone comes too close-THIS dog is what causes BSL.

Gracie is my seventh rottie-and no-none of mine have ever been vicious. Like you, I love this breed, and I try to do my best to be a responsible owner and raise well behaved dogs. I'm sure I have made mistakes. I try to make as few as possible and not make the same mistake twice because I understand that rotties as a breed are very strong and require alot of work.

I am in no way directing this attitude at responible rottie owners. If every rottie had a home with a reponsible owner, then BSL would not even be a potential for rotties. But irresponsible owners have this attitude and WILL NOT be told otherwise. I see it all the time here on the forums where a thread is locked by a mod with a statement such as: "You are unwilling to listen to good advise. There is no reason to continue this discussion." I do believe that it is the irresponsible owners that cause BSL and the responsible ones that suffer the consequences.

[cerulean]

Originally Posted by Necie

First I drive by my neighbors on my way to work-they have a beautiful male rottie (3 yrs old maybe) who I used to notice was tied outside when they were gone (at work), but not when they were home. Now they have 2 little children and he is tied out 24/7. As I drive by today he is playing with a small branch-trying to put it into the baby's swing that is tied to a tree that he can reach. Trying to entertain himself, I guess. :(

Necie:
The ASPCA defines the following as "cruelty" and all states have anti-cruelty laws (details vary by state):
Quote:
"Tethering: The act of chaining/tieing an animal, usually a dog, to a stationary object as a primary means of confinement. Tethering is a risk factor for aggressive behavior and dog bites."

Here is the link for state by state info for how to report cruelty.
ASPCA: Fight Animal Cruelty: State Anti-Cruelty Investigatory-Arrest Powers

Please, it's not too hard, could you look at this and consider reporting the tied-out dog ?? The dog's in the front yard, a bite disaster waiting to happen, exactly what we are trying to prevent here.... I'm almost in tears thinking about some kid getting bitten and the dog getting PTS......

thanks for thinking about this.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Necie

As far as vicious dogs-I am referring to MOST (as I'm sure there are exceptions)-mine, yours, anyone's. Rotties as a breed-NO-I don't believe are vicious by nature-but "IN THE WRONG HANDS" (that was in the sentence you quoted me on) can become that way. A pup with the best potential, given to the WRONG owner (an irresponsible one), who let's say is tied in the backyard, beaten for jumping for attention when the owner takes food/water to it, not given food/water regularly, no socialization, no training, no love-will become a problem dog. THESE are the dogs that bite. Out of fear, resource guarding, whatever...when THIS dog happens to break it's chain or someone comes too close-THIS dog is what causes BSL.

Well, I don't think I misunderstood and I disagree with this statement also. You are taking the minority and making it the majority. MOST dogs that endure horrible neglect and abuse are amazingly forgiving and if lucky, can go on to live happy and bite-free lives in the right home.........whereas you are saying it's the other way around. All you have to do is look to shelters and rescues to see this.

As far as owners go, the problem with the majority of those who have problems with their dogs is not due to some evil intent or arrogant stance, it's the simple fact that they are too lazy to train their dogs.

[Necie]

Maybe it's a difference in location-I don't know. Where I live, I drive one mile to work and I can name off the top of my head eight dogs (labs, rotties, gsds, pits) that are chained to a doghouse in yards.

I totally agree with this statement:

"MOST dogs that endure horrible neglect and abuse are amazingly forgiving and if lucky, can go on to live happy and bite-free lives in the right home......."

that is assuming that they get this chance. I was speaking of the ones who don't.

Where I am, MOST dogs who are chained in the backyard live out their lives that way. And as in the post by cerulean quoting the ASPCA website:

Quote:
"Tethering: The act of chaining/tieing an animal, usually a dog, to a stationary object as a primary means of confinement. Tethering is a risk factor for aggressive behavior and dog bites."

So, I am saying that the UNLUCKY ones, who as a pup are tied out and have nothing done with them, become a bite risk. And YES-even my dog. If I had not got my Gracie and someone else had and tied her out, YES-she could become a bite risk. My Greta-my first rottie love, who nursed a kitten and mothered a lamb and never once did I hear that dog bark or growl-if someone else had gotten her as a pup and tied her out, SHE could have become a bite risk. I wish every dog that IS a bite risk were lucky enough to be recued and 'go on to live happy and bite-free lives in the right home', but that is not MY reality.

And I never stated that people who chain their dogs believe that they have "evil intent or an arrogant stance", that is MY opinion of them. And, of course, if they chain their dogs in the backyard, they are too lazy to train.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Necie

Maybe it's a difference in location-Where I am, MOST dogs who are chained in the backyard live out their lives that way. .

yes i know several dogs that never get off the chain except to go for there yearly shots if they even get those and in the area we both live in its not the rare occasion that a dog live out its life chained to a doghouse(or a scrapped car) its almost the norm.

[JoJo]

Every dog on earth bites, they're dogs! It's how they are trained, socialized and bred that separates the good from the bad. In the real world, you will and we have low life irresponsible people who have dogs and have them for all the wrong reasons. May it be for status, may it be for illegal purposes, may it be for just because......bottom line, the dog is the looser. In the real world, one cannot save them all. In our rose colored world we want all to live in Utopia and be the best of the best, owners included. Oh well, guess we just have to carry on and do our best in education and lead by example.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Necie

Maybe it's a difference in location-I don't know.

Where I am, MOST dogs who are chained in the backyard live out their lives that way.

And I never stated that people who chain their dogs believe that they have "evil intent or an arrogant stance", that is MY opinion of them.

I believe you're right, it is YOUR experience in YOUR location that has developed YOUR opinions. That doesn't mean the rest of the world is the same, and I've only responded to your statements because you presented them as if that is the way the whole wide world is....not just your local experience of it.

And, as JoJo pointed out, if a dog (big, small or in between) has teeth, it is a potential bite risk. There are contributing factors for sure, but some dogs in what we would consider horrible management and environmental conditions never bite....just as some dogs in what we might consider ideal conditions do bite.....so there's certainly more to it that just that.