Service dog denied at Walmart

[fbkeays]

Originally Posted by hokisteph5

It is a little scary that a service dog doesn't have to be certified (as opposed to a therapy dog), but gets full access to everywhere their human goes (whereas a therapy dog is restricted).

In American we have a phobic problem with dogs in public or semi public places. Hospitals, nursing homes and other places that therapy dogs go to are owned by companies and people that are terrified of being sued. These places are requiring the certification to cover their asses.
These types of places invite therapy dogs to "work" in their buildings. Unless the therapy dog is acting in that capacity in a place that it has been invited, it is just another dog.
A service dog is not "just another dog". It is a functioning piece of medical equipment, like an oxygen tank or leg brace. Last time I used crutches, I wasn't asked about my crutches when I entered my local cafe. Federal law protects these places by putting the responsibility on the handler. Just like if I tripped a person with my crutches, I would be responsible, not the shop owner.
I am surprised at the negative attitude towards people with service dogs. I am ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with people with such attitudes. By denying a person with a service dog the basic ability to go and do as you do, it is like taking a wheelchair from a person with no legs and telling them that they are welcome to join the party, but first they have to climb a flight of stairs. How many people with no legs will be able to enjoy the party????

[seldown]

Francis, I am curious if you include guide dogs in your description of service dogs and their certification in your last post. I have worked a bit with a guide dog organization over the last two years. They do supply the dog to the individual from their own breeding stock, at no charge to the blind person, and the blind owners are allowed to have other dogs. These dogs are trained from birth and more extensively during their official 'training' so I think that certification does carry some merit. When you mentioned service dogs did you mean to include guide dogs? I have heard that once the guide dog is fully trained their value is close to 30k. I was impressed when I first learned that the dogs are supplied at no cost to a blind owner.

[hokisteph5]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

I am surprised at the negative attitude towards people with service dogs. I am ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with people with such attitudes. By denying a person with a service dog the basic ability to go and do as you do, it is like taking a wheelchair from a person with no legs and telling them that they are welcome to join the party, but first they have to climb a flight of stairs.

I don't think anyone on this thread has a negative attitude towards people with service dogs. I also don't even care whether the person looks disabled or not because I realize that disabilities come in all forms. However, I do stand by my statement because, to me, Chloe's story has cast a light on an area that most don't know much about.

Like several others have already said, I have nothing against someone being in a store with their service dog. I do, however, have questions about how easy it would be for someone to designate a dog as being a service dog by purchasing a vest online and potentially doing all of the training on their own.

The intent of my original post was that with a dog passing a TDI, Delta Society, or other organized group's test the general public has an idea of a dog's training level and temperament. That is not the case with service dogs.

[Baxter's Mom]

The intent of my original post was that with a dog passing a TDI, Delta Society, or other organized group's test the general public has an idea of a dog's training level and temperament. That is not the case with service dogs.

Chloe has passed her TT AND CGC, I think she would be okay to go out in public, don't you?

I don't care how a service dog "became" a service dog, as long as the dog is helping the person. The who, what, when, where's is irrevelant to me, the comfort, help, and safety of the person is what I'm concerned about... I'm assuming our country officials are thinking the same way, since there is no law, no required "piece of paper". And if someone fakes a injury and a service dog, I'm sure they will also enjoy the fine that comes with it.

If anyone hasn't checked out Chloe's website recently, please do... There is a comment for the folks who think with " half- empty" bottles.

[seldown]

At the time of the incident was Chloe a service dog in training or an actual service dog? I have a lousy internet connection and can not download the
video unless I leave my dial up connected for a couple hours.
The only reason I ask is that I do know in MA service dogs in training are offered the same designation as a working service dog. Not all states recognize service-dogs-in-training. If this happened while Chloe was still in training it may be why there hasn't been mention of a pending lawsuit, particularly if the state does not recognize dogs in training. A store can refuse entry to service dogs still in training.
In MA I can take the GEB puppies in pre-training into stores if they have earned their vests. The organization recommends we call and ask permission first. If the manager wishes the dog to not enter the organization asks us to respect that request. They do emphasis it would be a completely different scenario if it was a certified guide dog being refused entry with their disabled owner. That would be in violation of the law.
That being said it is clear that this case was based on breed discrimination, but I appreciate the discussion on service dogs and what quailifies them as it fills in gaps in my understanding of the issue.

[hokisteph5]

seldown, I just did a search for the answer to your question. I eventually came across Chloe's website and it has an update. According to the site, she's technically a service dog in training, but the CA laws are the same as what you have in MA.

[seldown]

Thanks for the info and for searching! I miss the days of having high speed internet connection.
If the owner is disabled and the state recognizes dogs in training you would think it is a clear case of violating the disablities act.
Unfortunately, though breed discrimination is not against the law, it sadly seems to be becoming the norm. I am surprised as ignorant as the manager was that he was able to properly identify the breed. I was in front of an ice cream store with a black lab wearing his vest and had a boy start yelling at me to get that stupid pit bull out of here! The dog I had at the time was so very clearly a black lab. People see pit bulls even where there isn't one. This black lab was even wearing a vest identifying him as a dog in training.
Not directly related to the Chloe situation because of how much she is being trained and the obvious breed discrimination. To me it seems there is a lot involved in building a stable service dog, how do they react to noises, trucks, children, crowds, doorways, etc. Are they afraid of mailboxes, umbrellas, flags flapping in the wind, distracted by other dogs or the smell of food. Do service dog agencies provide a better and more thorough training than an owner who has trained a dog to assist them greatly in the home...is that a ticket to be out in public where there is less control in surrounding environments. How safe is the handler, the dog and the public in varied situations?

[fbkeays]

Originally Posted by seldown

Francis, I am curious if you include guide dogs in your description of service dogs and their certification in your last post. I have worked a bit with a guide dog organization over the last two years. They do supply the dog to the individual from their own breeding stock, at no charge to the blind person, and the blind owners are allowed to have other dogs. These dogs are trained from birth and more extensively during their official 'training' so I think that certification does carry some merit. When you mentioned service dogs did you mean to include guide dogs? I have heard that once the guide dog is fully trained their value is close to 30k. I was impressed when I first learned that the dogs are supplied at no cost to a blind owner.

I have done a bit of research on hearing dogs, seizure dogs and balance/support dogs. I was drawing on my research on those types of service dogs. I will admit that I have not done much looking into seeing eye dogs. I stand corrected.

[kathyg]

Originally Posted by JoJo

Lori I find this hard to believe. Looking over the sight the owner is "asking" for publicity from the media on this incident. I would think this situation would hit National news in a split second just because it's Wal Mart. Wal Mart has been a target for everything lately. Also attorneys would be lining up 12 feet deep just to sue, for Wal Mart supposedly broke a Federal Law.

I'll give Chloe's owner this much though, what a way to bring BSL out in the open and show the country what a good temperament, well trained Pit can be. It's a clever way of educating, but not at the expense of others.

Once again, I'm not a believer on this one. I'm truly hoping I'm right. I just can't believe Wal Mart would be that stupid.

You've got to be kidding about Wal-Mart not being this stupid, right??? The words "Wal-Mart & "stupid" are basically synonyms.....hello? This is the SAME retailer that denied female employees pay raises and manager's positions based solely on the fact, obviously, that women don't possess male sex organs. They also have fought unionization through closing down their own stores that attempt to unionize, discrimated in hiring practices against the disabled, hired illegal immigrants to clean restrooms, (despite the personal fact I've yet to have seen a clean Wal-Mart rest room when I used to shop there) denied employess overtime pay -- the list is nearly endless and shameful. Where have you been? Wal-Mart simply does not believe federal (or any other laws for that matter) apply to them. I won't shop there, ever.

[heidi's mom]

Oh yeah, and don't forget about advertising foreign goods as US made and selling counterfeit goods.

I'm sure it was all inadvertent.

I won't shop there either....and I try to encourge everyone else to boycott too!

[Steelerfan]

My mom has a service dog because she's deaf. Dogsforthedeaf is a fantastic organization. Her dog is a Heinz 57, not at all like most of the service dogs I've seen.

I have no idea if this is a valid story or not. But my mom might not appear to have any disabilities if you didn't speak with her.

[Gerts]

Have you all not heard, read, or seen that "service dogs"/"therapy dogs" are also allowed to people with anxiety problems, phobias, etc.... These dogs of any breed, (usually their own household pet), can get certified and used in public, 'cause they help their owner keep calm in "problem situations" when in public.

So, someone that is "disabled" in this manner isn't easily "recognized" by other people...These people do not have to have a "specific breed"...nor are they "given one" by a specialized group, they just have to have their "family pet" pass the requirements...So that the "disabled" person who might be diagnosed w/ severe social phobias/anxiety, panic disorders/panic attacks, etc. benefit from having their dog with them in these situations out in public, 'cause the animal helps keep the person calm and able to function in situations they were not able to handle "alone"...

So, an unidentifiable "disabled person" can/could have some underlying issues that they are not willing to "discuss", but if their "service dog/therepy dog" helps them to "function" out in public, they should be allowed to enter establishments with any breed deemed "certified" so they can resume their "normal" lives...as you and I do...

granted the dilema we are discussing might be due to a debilitating "back problem"...but nontheless, these "service dogs/therapy dogs" are not just for the blind, or wheelchair bound anymore...

not sure of the validity of the story, just as some others of you, but thought I'd open up some eyes of other "just reasons" for these "service animals" out there. BTW...there are now "Seeing Eye Ponies"...yes, miniature horses (doing the work of dogs) for the blind!!!!!

[moz205]

Well put Gerts. I do know of a woman who had her pet, an English King Charles as her therapy dog. This dog has no training at all. This woman has anxiety, depression and other not so or maybe noticeable to those psych trained in mental disorders. This lady got this pup for company as she didn't go out often, especially not alone due to this. When the dog came into her life, she became almost a different person and then refused to go anywhere without him. In order for her to go out she now has him as her therapy dog, with the approval of her psychiatrist. Hence, he is allowed anywhere. As I stated in another post, anyone that questions her is put right into place as she is an attorney, an extremely bright one at that. She takes care of the issue on the spot and refuses to let anyone stop her from entering stores, restaurants etc. Btw, she got her dog's therapy coat off a website and there were no certifications required that I know of. I think it is too easy to get a therapy dog coat without a physician approval and the laws need to change on this. There should be some requirements that need to be met before called a therapy dog, no matter what type of therapy.

[Gunsey'sMom]

This quote is taken from the link to Cloe's homepage and provides an update:

For those inquiring minds who feel the need to make a judgement whether I am disabled enough to own a Service Dog, not all disabilities are immediately visible and I do have medical needs that meet the State of California qualifications. This is a personal issue and appreciate the respect of privacy and sensitivity. As a side note regardless of medical condition, a training handler does not have to be a disabled person to train a Service Dog. Chloe is my dog and being trained for me. The last comment, is that I am truly doing this for the education of public and businesses on the rights and uniqueness of service dogs, and also the positive promotion of pitbulls. I no intention to sue or make money from this, but rather truly allow this unfortunate, and not so uncommon, situation to be turned into a positive and proactive voice joining the millions of others that have been fighting this fight before us.

This answers pretty much all of my questions.