Latest in Dog World-May 2002--Indiana Considers Dog Fighting Bill

[LORHEL]

Just got the new issue of dog World. One article is: Indiana Considers Dog Fighting Bill.

"A bill being considered by the Indiana Senate would allow police to arrest people found with dog-fighting training equipment, such as a training treadmill or parting sticks. Under current law, police in Indiana much catch the fighting dogs and their handlers IN THE ACT. If passed, Senate Bill 366 would classify POSSESSION of the equipment alone as a misdemeanor. If police find scarred dogs with the equipment, the charge would be upgraded to a FELONY. :)

"We're trying to make is easier to make an arrest," says Christina Dickerson of the Humane Society of Indianapolis. Fighting dogs are often kept in outdoor pens. Some break loose, roam their neighborhoods and attack people-especially children, because the dogs are trained to kill small, fast-moving objects. "One police officer told me he knows dog fighting has taken hold somewhere close when 'Pit Bulls and Rottweilers [are] roaming the streets and the stray cats disappear," says STEVE DALE a Chicago-Based Journalist who writes a monthly column for DOG WORLD....

LETS HOPE THIS ONE GOES THROUGH FOLKS!!

[RSQRottweiler]

The part that concerns me is that mere possession of things like treadmills and parting/breaking sticks could lead to charges. Don't get me wrong -- I want to see laws get tougher on dog fighters. But what about owners of show dogs who use treadmills as part of regular conditioning? I've lurked on some of the AOL message boards for the APBT and other "pit bull" breeds, and many of the owners do recommend owning (and knowing how to use) a breaking stick. It's based on the same reasoning that many people recommend a privacy fence vs. an "invisible" fence. Even if you are responsible and your dog is under control at all times, you cannot control other people or their animals.

So, I have a problem with mere possession of things like treadmills being grounds for a misdemeanor just because someone owns a certain breed of dog. If I read correctly, that's what this law would allow. :( That's sort of like charging me with a DUI because I have a few beers in the fridge and I drive a red truck. Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Audrey

[LORHEL]

Yes, I see where you are coming from totally, the bill hasn't been passed, but maybe along the way things might change, it may not even pass at all.

I just can't imagine being on the authorities end, and seeing what is going on and not being able to do anything about it.

I would hope that they would check out the environment that the dog is living in first as a means to evaluate the situation, and then go from there. As with everything, there is always a good and bad side.

[BIGWRIGHT]

Not saying that they don't deserve to go to jail but what do you think people will say when they see your Rottweiler walking down the street with you or standing at the gate of your home barking people away. They'll all think you have a killer dog. What if you go and train your dog in protection what will they say then. Allot of people started talking about how bad dobermans and Filas are when I mentioned it before but we haven't seen them in the news or any front pages. I asked a Fila breeder why since their breed is so protective and does not do well with strangers why she thought their have been no incidnets wit their breed. She said basically because Rottwieler owners have become to lax they all think their dogs are cute loving animals and lal think that my rottweiler would never do that until and accident happens and they are shocked. They know their breed and they don't breed to just anyone and they are strict on who their dogs go to and most of their females sold are spayed unless the person buying the dog has had fila's before and joins their fila organization. Nothing good will come of laws for dogs and letting the police decided if a dog is dangerous because of the equipment the own will be a big mistake.

[TrishB]

I think it's a great idea! I have a hard time believing that the police will not talk to the owners to find out WHY they have the equipment. If you show your dog or have it enrolled in classes, etc. I'm sure they'll take that into account.

I'm not for a police state here - but I am for the protection of animals. They aren't after the people who show or compete their dogs in approved, legal shows.

Dog fighting is a horrible, abusive sport. If this puts even a dent in the abuse, I'm all for it! :D

I'm especially for the increase to a FELONY if the dogs themselves are found. It's obvious that the current laws are much too lax. If this helps, I'm sure the dog loving public won't mind being slightly inconvenienced and adjusting to accommodate the new law.

It's about time someone made some changes.

[LORHEL]

Yes, I think what they are trying to say is that they can't even get their foot in the door so to speak with these criminals and even begin to do anything about the situation, now at least they have some probable cause to check things out. Dog fighting is illegal, but trying to prosecute it is difficult, and now at least they have some "ammo" to try and get these criminals.

[Ramon]

That really irritates me. In Texas, I already had a neighbor call the police because I was weight pulling with my American Bulldog. I had to convince them that I wasn't training him for dog fighting!

[BIGWRIGHT]

trish B this is not to sound like any sort of disrespect but you cannot be that niave. The police once arrested a friend of mines and took all his dogs because they thought he was training dogs to attack in his own backyard in an enclosed 7' high fenced yard. He belongs to a reputable schutzhund club and has been a Military dog handler for ten years. After they realized (4 hours later) that he was nit fighting or training his dogs to kill they released hima nd then gave him his dogs the next day. They began harrasing him for weeks after that because of all the equipment he owned. YES THE POLICE WILL START BECOMING JUDGE AND JUROR. They don't care that your working your dog it all looks like bad training to them and they won't hesitate to take matters into their own hands. Look on the posts and you will find article of cops shooting peoples dogs intheir own yards. I'm telling you all these laws are going to make things worse. My buddy who breeds pitbulls had two of his Alpha males get into it by accident he took them to the vet and they called the police and told them he was a pitdog fighter. So you think they will care of they see you with a tug or sleeve or bite suit and say oh that's normal for a dog owner.

[TrishB]

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
trish B this is not to sound like any sort of disrespect but you cannot be that niave.

I'm sorry Bigwright, I have to stand by my earlier comment. SOMETHING has to be done. Of course, there will be misunderstandings at first, but if it helps to stop the horrible abuse of these dogs? I'm all for it. If this part of the law provides a window into dogfighting that was previously not available to police, as far as I'm concerned - it needs to be done.

Dog fighting is rampant. The reason is because the criminals have more rights than the police and the general public. Have you ever seen a dog that has been a victum of dog fighting? Or as a target dog? Those pictures alone convince me 100%. :(

If you don't like this, then what WOULD you like? It's fine and dandy to say that you disagree - but you'll need to offer another solution in it's place. I'm open to better suggestions.

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

Originally posted by TrishB
I think it's a great idea! I have a hard time believing that the police will not talk to the owners to find out WHY they have the equipment. If you show your dog or have it enrolled in classes, etc. I'm sure they'll take that into account.

What do you think the owners will say when the police talk to them? "Oh no, officer, I would never have my dog in a fight." I really doubt that the police will do any talking to anyone once the equipment is found. No, what is more likely is that the arrest will be made, and then the person arrested will have to prove their innocence. Kind of the opposite of "innocent until proven guilty" wouldn't you say?

I'm not sure about this bill. I agree that dog fighting has to be stopped but I don't know if this is the way to go about it. It might make it easier for the police to make arrests, but won't the criminals just get smarter about hiding the equipment?

[MARYDVM]

I own two breaking sticks, one at the house and one in the car. I have never had to use them, but anyone who owns a bull breed and DOESN'T have a breaking stick is being irresponsible, in my opinion. A recent Irondog training seminar(weight pull, sprint race, tug of war, and protection competition developed primarily for American Bulldogs) was raided by cops in CA after someone reported they were "fixing to fight dogs". Luckily the man conducting the seminar was recognized by one of the officers who had seen him and his dog on the Animal Planet show "Breed All About It". I think the reason dog fighting is not extensively prosecuted, is not that there aren't already enough laws on the books, but rather that the police spend more time on drug and violent crime cases, which is as it should be. I own a breaking stick and a dog with a scar on her nose and ear, under this law that could make me a felon.

[BIGWRIGHT]

How can they stop dog fighting easily all they have to do is want to stop it. Let's face it dog fighting is not the top priority on the list if felons. If they want to stop it all they have to do is have undercover stings in order to cathc and find the people, teh people fighting the dogs are not that bright believe me. Ilived in NY all my life and you could find a fight anywhere in the City all you have to do is flash some cash and want to bet on a fight and they'll be a fight anywhere anytime. If the had people doing undercover work they would stop the dog fights. Now tell me tthis what would happen to the dogs after the are confiscated? They would most likely be destroyed and I hate to say this but most of the dogs don't come with tags so whoever is caught can just say it's not my dog. Unless they are microchipped their is no way of telling so where is your solution Trish I mean who is going to be responsible for the hundreds of dogs that will be taken in by the police and where will the go? See that's why I don't like this law because it leaves no answers only questions and the death toll will only grow from it. Like we have all said people will always breed dogs and criminals will always find ways to get what they want so where is the answers their are none. When you add laws though to the already a bad problem then you make innocent people afraid as well. Suppose my rottie gets into a fight with a dog and I take him to the vet and the vet thinks under this new law I could be a dog fighter then what. We don't need these we need the police to make up a task force just for dog fighting but before that find a solution to where these dogs will end up. Make all dogs microchipped and if a breeder is found that their dogs have been fought more than once then they should be find and their right to breed should be taken away.

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
Now tell me tthis what would happen to the dogs after the are confiscated? They would most likely be destroyed and I hate to say this but most of the dogs don't come with tags so whoever is caught can just say it's not my dog.

IMO it's a better death for a dog to be euthanized than to be killed in a dog fight. Some of the dogs would go to shelters/rescues etc. but you're right, the most likely result would be euthanization, like the cocks confiscated from cock fighting rings.

[BIGWRIGHT]

I'm not saying they should die in a fight I'm just saying that the police should start stings in order to catch the people before the fights start or as soon as it starts . Either way it's a lose lose situation because these dogs have nowhere to go and some of them are so pumped up they can never have normal lives again and as mucha s I love animals i don't think I would want to upset my happy home and with a dog that had been through all that abuse and drug overdoses and whatever. To be honest most people wouldn't and humane society's have enough problems getting cute little cuddly puppies adopted so what do you think would happen trying to get a 80 pound used to be a fighting dog adopted. No it's not fair but what is in life I just don't want any laws coming out restricting my freedom as a honest dog owner and have to go around explaining to every cop or nosy neighbor what I'm doing with my dog equipment.

[redmoss]

It's already assumned that someone with more than 3 pit bulls is involved in fighting. Dog fighting is already a felony in all 50 states and I'm nearly positive that in my state you can be arrested for having fighting paraphanelia.

My dogs ate my breaking stick and I haven't bought a treadmill nor set up a springpole, but I do subscribe to a fighting magazine and I own practically every book written pertaining to fighting dogs.

Since I have 7 dogs, all rescued, would I be arrested? Probably not because I know people in law enforcement, veterinarians and shelter personnel that can vouch for me but what of the person who simply loves the breed and uses the treadmill to get their dogs in shape for shows and has a breaking stick in case there's an accidental fight?

Maybe if someone has dogs with extreme scarring that they know to be involved in fighting this legislation can be used rather than scheduling a raid at a dogfight, where many other illegal activities occur.

I am torn because I have been the subject of investigations for no other reason than I choose to own pit bulls. I have had neighbors make false accusations.

Due to the current environment, I fear that any excuse to harass dog owners and remove breeds that are misunderstood and disliked, will be abused by those with power and a possible agenda.