Nerve strength and Threshold 2

[Mick Trainer]

This once again is another post I wrote a while ago, but with so many new people on the forum now there will probably be many that have not read it who will gain a better understanding of canine behavior from it. This is only a very basic look into nerve and how it influences canine behavior. Doing a search on the forum for Defensive drive will give you more info regards this topic. I hope in the not too distant future to post an advanced nerve threory. Enjoy.

Nerve Strength and Thresholds:

There has been much written recently about the dogs nerves and how this related to their behavior. I write this post to help clear some of this up, in the hope that it may be of help to those with behavioral problems, and for those with young dogs or those purchasing a dog in the future so as they may avoid such problems.

I feel at this point that I must define a few words so that there is no confusion as to their meaning.

Drive: "describes part of an inherited trait which serves to sustain life and species". It is where the dog is exibiting behavior where it has a sole focus to achieve a desired goal.

Thresehold: The point where a dog is said to go into drive or where a dog goes from one drive into another.

Defencive Drive: This is where the dog is defending life, territory, food, pack etc. The dog will show aggression towards the/an object with the sole purpose of putting that object into avoidance (moving away from the dog). The trigger stimulas for a dog going into defencive drive is threat or the perception of threat. Defencive behaviors can include True aggression, Staring, a widening of the stance, Hair up on the back/neck area. A dog reaction too and ability to deal with a threat depends largely on the strength of this drive.

Avoidance: Avoidance is where the dog wishes to avoid the confrontation. The most common example of this is running away from the object.(It may not always be as clear as this). In the end the dog is putting distance between him and the object.

When trainers talk about a dogs nerve strenght they are talking about the dogs ability to deal with and to recover from stress, and particularly stress caused through threat. Nerve strenghts are normally devided up into three main catagorise. Weak, mid strenght and strong.

A dog that is said to be of low or weak nerve strenght is a dog that is basically nervous in it's temperament. This dog will spook very easily and may take much time to recover. This dog will go into it's defencive drive with very low levels of stimulation and will also go in to avoidance behavior not long after. Common examples of these dogs are dogs that show large amounts of aggression towards people when these people have shown no real threat to either dog or handler. Dogs that work the gate or bark at even the slightest of noise without being trained to do so are doing this as they are nervous of what that noise may be.

Although to the uneducated these dogs may seem to be a good guard dog (most people that own this sort of dog believe they have tiger by the tail) the truth is that with any real pressure these dogs will go into avoidance behavior and back off. These dogs are also very likely to bite the wrong person and will often bite out of self defence (Fear biter).
Weak Nerve or low threshold dogs can be and should be helped by professional trainers. These dogs confidence must be lifted up so as they are not spooked into defencive aggression at such a low level.

Mid Strength nerved, dogs are those that make up the majority of dogs in the community. These dogs can be spooked and frightened but it is at level that is not seen almost every day as the weak nerved dogs are. These dogs will show signs of stress but will recover from it quite quickly. They will bark and alarm the pack (owner) to strange goings on but will not show full blown aggression (hair up, teeth out etc) until truly threatened. These dogs will happily greet new people and objects without fear but with the right training will defend their owner against real and direct threats. Without the direct threat no aggression will be shown.

These dogs make up the group of dogs that will suit the average family house hold, that want a friendly happy dog that is safe with strangers and their children but will make a fine watch dog.

Strong Nerve: A dog is said to be of high nerve strength or a high threshold dog when the level of stimulas needed for this dog to instigate it's defencive drive is at such a high level that it is rarely seen. These dog posses true self confidence and feel that there is very little in this world that is of true threat to them. These dogs rarely, if ever exibit defencive aggression as there is very little that is seen as a real threat (the stimulas for defence).

These dogs in the right hands can make excellent pets, but can in the wrong and if accompanied by a high rank drive, may produce very dominant/rank dogs that will happily challenge the owner. This is due to there high levels of confidence and thus the fact that they will back themselves in when confronted. These dogs can make the best police service or riot dogs. These dogs often posses Active Aggression where they see every challenge in their lives as a direct challenge to their athourity. With their true confidence they are unlikely to back down.

Nerve strength can be greatly affected by many outside influences. The most important being upbringing and in particular early socialisation. A dog that has had a hard or abused upbrining or a lack of socialisation will generally have a lower nerve threshold then when it was born. The opposite is also true.

Age is another aspect that can greatly affect nerve strength. It is widely believed that a dog will not be of full nerve strength until a minimum of 18 months and as late as 3 years of age.

I can hear people saying "How does this relate to me?" Simply take a look at your dog if you feel that it reacts to threat to easily then seek professional help and try to boost the dogs confidence. A dog that reacts like that of a low nerve threshold dog is a danger to all it meets and when pushed is unlikely to protect it's owner.

If you are buying a new dog then think about what you want the dog for. If you are after a family pet then pick a dog with good mid range nerve threshold (make sure the parents have the same) as this will help to ensure that the dog is not a fear biter. If you are after a dog for your personal protection then get a mid to high nerve dog as this will help for later work. Remember the sooner the dog goes into it's defencive drive the earlier it will show avoidance (as a general rule). If you expect the dog to protect you it must be able to access a clear and present danger and have the confidence to combat it.

What's happening in the breed now? Unfortunately in recent times the nerve strength of the Rottweiler has been reduced considerably. This is due to many factors such as poor breeding by money hungry breeders, a reduction in the number of working dogs, breeders breeding for titles without considering the temperament of the dogs, I could go on and on and on. This breed was originally breed to be a working dog and until recent times was extensively bred for their working abilities. Now however it is becoming ever more difficult to find dogs that could do personal protection or police service work. Some would say "So what. I don't want that any way". The reason these dogs cannot do this type of work is due to their confidence being wained. As their confidence goes the incidence of fear biting will continue to increase. I personally fell in love with this breed due to the incredible soundness, loyalty and stability of their temperament. It is this soundness etc that is being lost as the working ability deminishes. So it does not matter weather you want a police service dog or a couch potatoe, if you want a sound, calm temperament then confidence is a must.

I hope this helps in some way to clear up some misconceptions about nerve strenght. If it leaves you with any questions please feel free to remail or mail me directly.

Mick.

[moondog]

Mick - Thanks for another REALLY helpful post!

We hear the words used all the time, and the interpretation is many times left to the imaginations of those of us who aren't professionals. This helps things make more sense. :D

I do have a question about the drive as an inherited trait to sustain life and species - is the desire to work part of this? The desire of my Rottie to interact and have a job to do is one of the things I love most about her, but a lot of it doesn't seem to fall into a life-sustaining category, unless I'm misreading her motives. I'm curious about that.......

[Jamie & Odin]

Hey Mick, Fantastic info. I knew a lot of the signs of dominance (definately not all!) but the nerve/threshold issue was one I had no info on. This really cleared things up for me. My boy was abused in his first home, and as a result has a low nerve threshold to threats. He barks and growls relatively quickly when he hears a noise, but is all talk, i.e. he backs off and acts "shy" when he actually meets the person he views as an intruder. Now, this only really happens at the house, not when we are in public places. He has improved fantastically since I brought him home. I hope his low threshold is due to the abuse and not his breeding, which I have no info on. Thanks again!

[Ilovemypuppy]

Thank-you Mick for another great article......we 'll all be lined up for the book signing as soon as you write it! I really enjoy reading your articles and I find that you explain things in such a way that the information is also remembered, in other words, it is understood! Cheers! Jory

[Judi W]

Originally posted by moondog
I do have a question about the drive as an inherited trait to sustain life and species - is the desire to work part of this? The desire of my Rottie to interact and have a job to do is one of the things I love most about her, but a lot of it doesn't seem to fall into a life-sustaining category, unless I'm misreading her motives. I'm curious about that.......

Hope you don't mind if I jump in here a bit. Drives are not motives as we understand them, but instincts. Motivation implies a conscious decision. Cooperation and recognition of the stronger leader is a survival trait. Loners in the wild didn't fare too well in the hunts and could not reproduce. We take drives and use them in a directed fashion to a desireable end. Prey drive is directed and channeled into tracking, herding, retrieving and much of sport work. The defense drive is channeled and guided into protection as desired, assuming that the dog is of sufficient character. Now a dog with low drives can make a perfectly fine pet for someone who has no expectations of their dog to work and those dogs rarely give anyone any trouble. I know I don't want one. Those are the dogs I describe as one who would starve to death if it had to catch a bunny for dinner, unless of course the bunny was teathered, and then you're not sure.

The weak-nerved dog that Mick describes is not good as a protection animal, nor does it make a safe or comfortable pet. Reproduction of these dogs should be strongly discouraged as it is a highly heritable trait. Added to the heritability, if the weak nerves are in the bitch she then "teaches" the pups fearfulness in addition to their genetic predisposition. Even before their ears and eyes are opened, they can sense the change in her respiration, adrenal output and heartbeat when a stranger appears. This is too much for environment to overcome. A truly talented dog person can mitigate some of this, but to what end? The dog still lives in an uncomfortable world that must be carefully monitored.

Hope I have helped add somewhat to the application of what Mick is talking about.

[moondog]

OK, I get it! :D Since I'm the boss, if she cooperates with me, she survives, and her willingness to work is a display of confidence in me as her leader. Makes total sense. The word motive was a poor choice, I did mean instinct, although I couldn't figure out which one. It's prey drive! :D

I had a dog at one time that was dumber than a bunny and harmless as a fly and I always said if she ever got lost in the woods, she'd be a goner even if there was a bunny sitting in front of her face! There's no comparison to this Rottie I have. It is with pure pleasure that I assume complete responsibility for directing her and her behavior - I live a better life because of her! ;)

Also, your comments regarding a weak-nerved bitch teaching her pups reminds me of a comment someone once made to me - if you like the mother, you'll like the puppy. That may not be a complete truth, but now I can see where it comes from. Life must just be a nightmare for those dogs that are weak-nerved. :(

Thanks, JudiW! Mick, you're off the hook on that one! ;)

[Judi W]

Actually, prey drive is what stimulates a dog to chase and go after dinner (remember, tracking, herding, fetching, biting the sleeve). Prey drive in its purest form wants to catch, bite and kill its dinner. We modify and channel it. What you are describing is pack drive (working with the pack or as part of a group). This is cooperative behavior that is necessary for the survival of the pack. Individuals that challenge the leader and are not equipped to win either accept their position as a follower or they risk being killed or driven out. This is also true of herd animals.

A dog that has an over-developed sense of leadership and is constantly challenging becomes pretty tiresome after a while. Most dogs, even very strong ones, if started and raised appropriately for their character, don't do a great deal of repeditive challenging IF the foundation has been properly laid. Dogs that accept their position and are willing to work for their leader are often described as bidable. I believe a good Rottweiler has a strong work ethic that must be exercised for a mentally and physically healthy relationship and a happy dog.

[Mick Trainer]

Great replies Judy. The follow along from the article Nicely.

Mick. :)

[Jamie & Odin]

Quick question, my boy seems to be a weak nerved dog. He is quick to growl and bark when someone comes to the house, but just as quick to back off when they try to meet him. I mentioned this in my last post, and also mentioned that he had been abused in his first home. I have seen INCREDIBLE improvements in him since I brought him home two months ago. Would it be fairly safe to say that since he has improved so greatly, that his weak nerve is due to the early abuse and not genetics? I am hoping that is the case, as I want him to be happy and healthy!

[German Vanegas]

Sadly enough what Mick stated at the end of his excellent posting is very true. Indiscriminate breeding has diluted the true traits of the Rottweilers. In some cases, totally ruining the breed.

The problem is that some people breed Rottweilers thinking of "show beauty" as the main purpose for breeding, thus making showing conformation in the ring their first priority, although at the expense of blatantly disregarding the desired temperament and working abilities in the breed. That's why there are many "show dogs" that look beautiful and all, but they are worthless as working dogs. Other breeders want you to believe that the Rottweiler's true working ability is herding!... Well, they are wrong, herding is just ONE of the many working traits of the breed. The truth of the matter is that the Rottweiler is a multi talented dog capable to perform different tasks in different areas.

However, due to random wanton breeding practices even though many Rottweilers are black with tan markings, they do not resemble the true noble Rottweiler. Why? Because, unfortunately, they lack the expected temperament, character, drives and nerves, that make this great breed so awesome. As many people are aware of, the majority of Rottweilers in the United States come from backyard irresponsible breeding, which in turn has hurt the breed tremendously, transforming it, in some cases, into a vicious unpredictable dog or sometimes into a plain wimp!

The true Rottweiler is a working dog capable to perform in different fields, such as tracking, scent discrimination, guarding, herding, therapy, agility, schutzhund, police patrol, military service, pet companion & protection, etc. That is what the Rottweiler breed is all about! If we want to save this noble breed, we need to learn more about it, in an attempt to preserve the traditional Rottweiler, or else this breed is doomed to become one of those breeds that people nowadays refer to by saying "They used to, but bad breeding destroyed the standards of the breed. You hardly can find one that truly characterizes the old type" :( It has happened to other breeds, trust me Let's hope we can do better.

[moondog]

Originally posted by Judi W
What you are describing is pack drive (working with the pack or as part of a group). This is cooperative behavior that is necessary for the survival of the pack. Individuals that challenge the leader and are not equipped to win either accept their position as a follower or they risk being killed or driven out. This is also true of herd animals.

Dogs that accept their position and are willing to work for their leader are often described as bidable. I believe a good Rottweiler has a strong work ethic that must be exercised for a mentally and physically healthy relationship and a happy dog.

Pack Drive! Things are becoming clearer! That also explains the nagging question I never asked about why Rottie's are also willing to pull carts, which doesn't seem to fall into either a prey or defense category.

So we have Pack Drive, Prey Drive and Defense Drive. Are there any others that would be considered primary?

Oh, and German, that dumber than a bunny dog (not a Rottie) I mentioned earlier was bred exactly as you said - for looks at the sacrifice of performance.

This is VERY educational! Thank you guys so much for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.........:D

[Judi W]

Not a drive issue, you are describing something a dog is trained to do. Not all teaching/training is based on drives. Mine pull because I harness them up and them to. Dogs were used to pull carts because the owners found it useful. A dog was cheaper to feed and smaller to keep than a horse.

Please, refer to Mick's initial definition. " Drive: "describes part of an inherited trait which serves to sustain life and species". It is where the dog is exibiting behavior where it has a sole focus to achieve a desired goal. "

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Judi W
Not a drive issue, you are describing something a dog is trained to do. Not all teaching/training is based on drives. Mine pull because I harness them up and them to. Dogs were used to pull carts because the owners found it useful. A dog was cheaper to feed and smaller to keep than a horse.

Please, refer to Mick's initial definition. " Drive: "describes part of an inherited trait which serves to sustain life and species". It is where the dog is exibiting behavior where it has a sole focus to achieve a desired goal. "

I like to add that a well-bred Rottweiler must have a strong eagerness and willingness to please his master. This is also a characteristic of a good working dog.

[moondog]

Thank you, guys. I'll keep my mouth shut now!:D

[TwitEm]

GREAT post, Mick et al. I think I may have lucked out with Anna, my 9 month old Rottie---she's as confident, social and fearless at almost 10 months as she was at 9 weeks. Very little has ever spooked her--loud noises, strange dogs, people and even dogs who she's run across on walks that tried to intiidate her by barking, ruff up, etc. She just watches calmly and/or ignores them. She finished puppy kindergarten with the blue ribbon for best puppy and is now in basic obedience. She is still the most focused puppy in the class. I have tried to socialize her well, am training, but I think good breeding may be the biggest contributing factor--almost every dog in 7 generation pedigree is a champion and most have/had working titles. She doesn't seem much interested in fetching tennis balls, but loves to herd her big indestructible ball around the yard. Does that mean she has a low prey drive and possibly a burgeoning herding instinct? Anyway, thanks for all the input--invaluable for those of us who are not experienced Rottie owners. TwitEm