Need help to understand this (V long, sorry)

[Hellsgardener]

I have been ‘lurking’ for a while reading and thinking, but now it’s time I posted this.
Many of the people who post on this site sound wonderful – passionate about their dogs and the breed but knowledgeable too, and it’s them I need help from. ‘Poohbears mom and her impassioned plea really persuaded me to do this.
This is NOT a rant about rotties, it is a plea for help.
For 2 years, I told anyone that would listen that the Rottweiler who lived down the road from me was a wonderful advertisement for the breed. We had passed while I was out walking my dog hundreds of times. The owner would sometimes walk him off the lead / leash and he stuck to his ankle like glue, under absolute control. Yes he always rumbled at my dog as he passed, but mine always grumbled too. No lunging, no attempt to get at each other just a rumble as their paths crossed. He was a beautiful dog, beautifully behaved and I raved about him to everyone, especially when the dangerous dog debate reared its head as it always does – the press everywhere see to that.
Then on Easter Monday morning back in March everything changed. I was out walking Dylan. This time the dog wasn’t with his owner, but his stepson. No reason to worry, I had seen them out together many times. The dog was on a lead with a haltie (like a bridle to prevent pulling, don’t know if they have them everywhere). I stood to the side to let them past (normal, not enough room for 2 humans and 2dogs on this path we took it in turns to move out of the way) the dogs grumbled at each other (again, normal) only this time the dog pulled, the haltie came off and 9 stone (126 lbs) of dog launched itself at my dog. He’s a collie cross, not very big, won’t rave about him here, wrong forum . He was shaken about a bit, the noise was HORRIBLE, but the rottie suddenly let go, jumped at me, knocked me to the ground and sank his teeth into my hip. The lad walking him pulled him off me, I tried to get up and he came at me again, this time he got my arm, and shook me too. I don’t know how he got him off me a second time, its blurred, but the most terrifying thing I have ever had to do is turn my back on them and walk away. I truly believed that if he came at us again he would kill us. I managed about 200 yards to house with a gate I could close behind us before I fell over.
I spent a week in hospital with a shattered wrist (both bones – plates required) permanent nerve and muscle damage, more stitches than I even want to think about and IV antibiotics 4 times a day. I was in plaster for 7 weeks and now need months of physio to restore proper movement in my wrist and arm.
Everyone I have spoken to since says three things. Hope the police destroyed the dog. Hope you’re going to sue them. Rottweilers should be banned they are all dangerous.
BTW I always respond the same. 1), No the owners took the dog to the vet the same day and had him put to sleep, no police intervention required. 2) No, he is as devastated as I am, he has promised that he will replace lost earnings, lost clothing, refund our vets bills for our injured but recovering dog, I know he will be as good as his word, why do I need to add to his heartache ?. and 3) No, I still don’t agree that the breed should be banned.
I’m sorry this has gone on a bit but this is where I really need help to understand. Nothing was different to any other morning I met them while we were out walking, so why did I go from human to prey ? Why did a dog who had never put a foot out of line, who was bullied by the owners chickens who would chase him out of his kennel when it rained so they could stay dry suddenly go into kill mode. Was it something I did or just one of those wrong place wrong time moments. IMHO all dogs are capable of it, even mine, but this one weighed as much as a person and nobody would have stood a chance. I consider myself fairly strong for a woman, but no way could I have fought him off unaided. I am now unable to walk past my own gate alone, and having spent years throwing on a coat and boots and walking for hours with a dog, the thought of doing that now is too terrifying to even think about – now having counselling for what they are telling me is PTSD.
Please, I need to find out why this happened. I can’t agree with the “it’s always the owner, never the dogs fault” not in this case, but he had never done anything to suggest he was capable of this sort of behaviour. The owner is devastated, he has had dogs since he was a child and this once since he was an 8 week old pup (6 years ago). I can’t pretend I am not relieved that I will not have to face that particular rottie again, but I know how I would feel if the boot was on the other foot. I hope I would be able to do the same thing and have him put down, but it would still break my heart.
Why. What changed. Is there anyone out there who can help me put all this in perspective and understand, don’t think I can move on until I do.
Sorry it’s so long, and thanks for sticking with me.

[Nishasmom]

What a horrible experience . I can't help you, but I just wanted to offer my support. You sound like a wonderful person for dealing with things the way you are.

[BeauandShan]

You sound like an incredible person to deal with things the way you have. I cant offer any answers because I simply dont have any but just needed to let you know how courageous I think you are. Many people would have reacted very differently

[BabyBrownz]

I can't help you either with understanding this but would like to say "Thank you!!" FOR NOT condemning the whole breed because of your bad experience.

I've never encountered such a situation and hope never too.

Wishing you and your pet a speedy recovery and hope for better experiences in the future.

[sweetlee]

I applaud you for not hating all rotties now.
I will venture a guess. How old is this stepson? I trust my dog with my grandkids, but I would not let my 12 and 13 year old granddaughters walk them alone. I would be more worried about my dog being attacked, as I am sure the owners of this rottie trusted him totally too.
I believe that when a dog does something totally out of character like that, medical reasons must be looked at first. Is it possible the dog had the beginnings of a brain tumor? Some dogs, just as some people are not wired right, they are crazy, but I doubt this is the case since they have had him 6 years without problem. Mostly around here if people have had these problems they have dealt with them for a long time before deciding the dog is not right in the head.
I hope they had an autopsy done, to check for medical problems. We had one member on here who's dog attacked her dad out of the blue, and it turned out the dog did have a cancerous growth that affected her thinking.
that is the only thing I can think of. The only other thing that may be possible, is that the dog perceived you and your dog as a threat to the stepson and WAY overreacted. That is why training is so important, WE decide who is and isn't a threat. And I doubt the stepson is the dog's boss.
I am of course just guessing. I am so sorry you went through this, and I am glad you posted here looking for some "answers" but all we can do is give you possibilities. Have you talked to the owner? Did you ask if maybe HE knows of a medical reason?


Sharon

[Denise L.]

I am sure others who have much more experience than I will chime in but I want to tell you I admire your grace and forgiveness. I am so sorry you went through such an horrific experience.

The only thing that pops in my mind is the Rottie may have had a physical or neurological ailment of some sort.

It is very hard because we don't know the dog involved.

[webangel2b]

I agree with Nisha's mom. That's a horrific experience and I agree with the way the owners handled it. You want an answer and I don't blame you at all. Only problem is, like with many other things, we will never be able to know exactly what triggered him. So, I don't have THE answer but more questions.

The stepson, you say you've seen him with the dog before. Has he walked him with the haltie? That's my first concern. Sounds right off like the "owner" was the leader and the dog was under his control. The stepson however, was not a leader and possibly needed "perceptionally" the rottie to interveen for him.

I could be way off base, because another problem maybe the dog had a physical injury/malfunction that the owner/stepson was unaware of.

Regardless you paid the price and always will. I think if I'd been the owner, I would have handled it the same way. I would put my dog down if I felt he was a risk to anyone's life/wellbeing. I would also owe you so much, I guess you take a risk owning any pet/the responsibility is unmeasureable.

[Maxxx]

I can't help either, but also wanted to extend my support. You are a very strong woman. It must have been a terrible experience and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for not condemning all rotties. Best wishes for a speedy recovery to both you and your dog.

[Weily4Life]

So sorry this happened to you. Sometimes there are things that we will never know the answer to. You sound like a strong individual and will be able to get through this. I am hoping you a speedy recovery.

[debbiej]

I'm sorry you had to go through this. I too thank you for not blaming the breed.

The owner of the dog sounds like he trained him, and like a responsible owner, but you just never know. Also, many owners of large breeds don't trust halties or gentle leaders. they can slip out, and many times the dogs really hate them.

the dog was well trained, but I'd venture a guess that his temperament wasn't good. there are such dogs within every breed, but like you say, it is more dangerous when a large dog has a bad temperament.

sometimes we love our dogs enough to close our eyes to the danger of a dog with unstable temperament. poodle, lab or cocker spaniel. It sounds to me that this dog had such a temperament.

I think perhaps that may have been the case here. or as others have said, it could have been the beginning of illness. also, a child should not have been walking the dog, maybe the dog only understood the leadership of his owner.

[fostermom]

I don't have anything else to add beyond what others have offered...there are certain diseases that can result in sudden, unexplained aggression (lyme disease is one)...but I suspect it is more that this dog did not view the stepson as a leader and took it upon itself to make decisions...perhaps your dog growled and it decided it needed to protect the stepson or itself from your dog (and then subsequently from you)...perhaps it was a dog that was never well socialized and in the absence of its owner viewed you as a threat??? We had a neighbor's dog who bit a pedestrian..this was a dog I've petted several times while he was walking it and it was always friendly...but this time, my neighbor was walking his dog, an adolescent approached them, walking VERY close to them..almost right up against the dog. The dog had no way to move away and reacted by biting the boy, most likely from fear aggression...perhaps when the owner walked this rott he was positioning the dog on the outside (away from other walkers) while the stepson didn't do that and the dog felt threatened...again, just throwing possibilities out.

My dogs behave differently with my husband than they do with me...they don't particularly listen to him...they DO listen to me. Clearly this rott deferred to its owner and not the stepson. This is tragic and I feel so badly for all concerned. I hope you are feeling better soon.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Hellsgardener

I have been ‘lurking’ for a while reading and thinking, but now it’s time I posted this.
Many of the people who post on this site sound wonderful – passionate about their dogs and the breed but knowledgeable too, and it’s them I need help from. ‘Poohbears mom and her impassioned plea really persuaded me to do this.
This is NOT a rant about rotties, it is a plea for help.
For 2 years, I told anyone that would listen that the Rottweiler who lived down the road from me was a wonderful advertisement for the breed. We had passed while I was out walking my dog hundreds of times. The owner would sometimes walk him off the lead / leash and he stuck to his ankle like glue, under absolute control. Yes he always rumbled at my dog as he passed, but mine always grumbled too. No lunging, no attempt to get at each other just a rumble as their paths crossed. He was a beautiful dog, beautifully behaved and I raved about him to everyone, especially when the dangerous dog debate reared its head as it always does – the press everywhere see to that.
Then on Easter Monday morning back in March everything changed. I was out walking Dylan. This time the dog wasn’t with his owner, but his stepson. No reason to worry, I had seen them out together many times. The dog was on a lead with a haltie (like a bridle to prevent pulling, don’t know if they have them everywhere). I stood to the side to let them past (normal, not enough room for 2 humans and 2dogs on this path we took it in turns to move out of the way) the dogs grumbled at each other (again, normal) only this time the dog pulled, the haltie came off and 9 stone (126 lbs) of dog launched itself at my dog. He’s a collie cross, not very big, won’t rave about him here, wrong forum . He was shaken about a bit, the noise was HORRIBLE, but the rottie suddenly let go, jumped at me, knocked me to the ground and sank his teeth into my hip. The lad walking him pulled him off me, I tried to get up and he came at me again, this time he got my arm, and shook me too. I don’t know how he got him off me a second time, its blurred, but the most terrifying thing I have ever had to do is turn my back on them and walk away. I truly believed that if he came at us again he would kill us. I managed about 200 yards to house with a gate I could close behind us before I fell over.
I spent a week in hospital with a shattered wrist (both bones – plates required) permanent nerve and muscle damage, more stitches than I even want to think about and IV antibiotics 4 times a day. I was in plaster for 7 weeks and now need months of physio to restore proper movement in my wrist and arm.
Everyone I have spoken to since says three things. Hope the police destroyed the dog. Hope you’re going to sue them. Rottweilers should be banned they are all dangerous.
BTW I always respond the same. 1), No the owners took the dog to the vet the same day and had him put to sleep, no police intervention required. 2) No, he is as devastated as I am, he has promised that he will replace lost earnings, lost clothing, refund our vets bills for our injured but recovering dog, I know he will be as good as his word, why do I need to add to his heartache ?. and 3) No, I still don’t agree that the breed should be banned.
I’m sorry this has gone on a bit but this is where I really need help to understand. Nothing was different to any other morning I met them while we were out walking, so why did I go from human to prey ? Why did a dog who had never put a foot out of line, who was bullied by the owners chickens who would chase him out of his kennel when it rained so they could stay dry suddenly go into kill mode. Was it something I did or just one of those wrong place wrong time moments. IMHO all dogs are capable of it, even mine, but this one weighed as much as a person and nobody would have stood a chance. I consider myself fairly strong for a woman, but no way could I have fought him off unaided. I am now unable to walk past my own gate alone, and having spent years throwing on a coat and boots and walking for hours with a dog, the thought of doing that now is too terrifying to even think about – now having counselling for what they are telling me is PTSD.
Please, I need to find out why this happened. I can’t agree with the “it’s always the owner, never the dogs fault” not in this case, but he had never done anything to suggest he was capable of this sort of behaviour. The owner is devastated, he has had dogs since he was a child and this once since he was an 8 week old pup (6 years ago). I can’t pretend I am not relieved that I will not have to face that particular rottie again, but I know how I would feel if the boot was on the other foot. I hope I would be able to do the same thing and have him put down, but it would still break my heart.
Why. What changed. Is there anyone out there who can help me put all this in perspective and understand, don’t think I can move on until I do.
Sorry it’s so long, and thanks for sticking with me.

Wow. You poor dear.

First of all, I do hope that your physical recovery is good. The mental healing can take a while, but if you're as strong and sensible as you seem to be, you should make a full recovery emotionally from this, but you'll likely need to be proactive about it.

I was attacked by a Working Breed Dog nearly 4 years ago. He took off nearly 1/2 the flesh from one side of my arm as I brought my arm up to protect my face/neck. I too had known this dog from puppyhood, so I can really understand your disbelief and your desire to learn "why" this happened.

I was very lucky in that there was no permanent nerve/tendon/ligament damage, so my physical recovery only took about 6months, not counting scar care.

After 2 months of only being around my dogs, I went to the training field, and LOST IT when a young GSD with very high prey drive lunged at the tubes hanging off my arm that were swinging around in front of him... lol. I can laugh about it now, but believe me, I thought my life with dogs was over, and the thought of that crushed me completely!

My mental recovery took well over a year. I've suffered a few panic moments when a dog has gone off on another human in front of me. (I work with a training facility, and we get some doozies in sometimes! ) It helped me immensely to force myself to be around dog savvy folks with very good dogs, so you might seek out a training club in your area to "re socialize" yourself a bit; this might help with the PTSD.

Your neighbor did the responsible thing by PTS this dog. I'm so sorry for everyone involved.

Now for the WHY:

The one thing you've mentioned in your post that I highlighted... there WAS something different about this particular day - the dog's true master was not present, only a "stand in", and that, my friend can make all the difference in the world in how a dog reacts to certain stimuli. (This is something EVERYONE should take a good hard look at; who are you trusting with your dog when you're not present - it only takes a second for a dog to decide he's got the upperhand if his leader isn't there to lead!)

You say that there had consistently been grumbles between your dog and this rottweiler... from what you've posted, it seems that the dogs, under the control of their masters had enough respect for their [respective] leadership to keep their animosity controlled.... the one day when the stepson was "in charge", the rottweiler did not view this human with the same respect. This dog did not suddenly "turn" aggressive - the dogs had been sending signals to one another for some time. A growl is simply a bite without the teeth, so to speak... it's the warning of impending intention. A growl is actually a blessing - it's much better than the alternative; a dog who acts before he speaks. So.... we should learn to listen to what our dogs are telling us, and I'm willing to bet you'll be a lot more interested in learning about K9 behavior after this.

Often times people are shocked when their dog, or a dog they've known to be a "teddy bear" just suddenly behaves aggressively, when in actuality, as in this case as you've described it, it was a time bomb waiting for the right moment to be dropped. The dogs had been posturing and sizing each other up for quite a while, and you likely ended up a casualty as the rottweiler redirected his aggression onto you in the midst of the excitement. Body language, and behavior are not something to overlook and growls are not something to allow. This dog was set up for failure, likely due to you and the neighbor not understanding the ramifications of both the dogs' exchanges over time.

That's my answer on the "why". It's really rather simple, but we tend to over think things like this... especially when it affects our lives so dramatically.

The owner of the rottweiler should pay for any and every expense that you incur from this incident. I'm not a "sue happy" person, and although I could have taken the owners of the dog that bit me to the cleaners, I'm a big believer in karma, and besides, friends don't sue friends - but responsible people do the right thing.

I'm glad that you don't hold this incident against all rottweilers. You definitely seem to have your head screwed on straight. Many people don't understand the recovery from dog bite wounds can take months and months or longer, and that these wounds are not simple punctures, but rather those teeth crush, rip and maim the tissue they connect with.

My heart truly goes out to you, you've not had a fun spring, and you've likely got a long road to finish your recovery. Did your awesome collie dog make it through this incident all right?

Peace be with you.

I hope this helps you.

[Hellsgardener]

Wow. I really didn't know what to expect when I posted. Thank you to everyone who replied ! You have certainly given me a lot to think about.
I don't know if a post mortem was done, I think probably not, sowill never know if there could have been a physical cause.
The lad who was walking him was 19 rather than a child, but v slightly built and yes if he needed a haltie to walk him then he was probably not top dog. I never thought about it that way because there had never been an issue before....
Can I please say my biggest hanks to Poohbears mom. It's good to know that the way I find myself reacting doesn't mean I am completely mad (not unless its both of us ) Your idea about going to a training class is a really good one. maybe not right now but sooner rather than later. Might even take Dylan with me after I am comfortable around other dogs again. The comment about growls being bites without teeth hit home. Mainly because he knows better than to do anything more than swear quietly to himself I hadn't ever thought it was a prolbem - he is NOT the pack leader in the family and he knows it. We have had him neutered since all this happened - our vet seemed convinced that it will stop aggression, not so much from him as directed AT him as he wil no longer give off the 'male, what you going to do about it' smell. BTW his 'half collie' ruff probaby saved his life. Lots of nasty puncture wounds but no serious damage and now his fur is growing back in you would hardly know anything had happened. The other half of him is Jack Russell - full size collie body on short stumpy legs, he looks like he was designed by a cartoonist but somebody had to love him
Anyway, thanks again. I won't be going on any walks long or otherwise for a little while, but I have loads to go over in my mind, and I may start to believe that it wasn't anything I did.
All I will ask is that you make sure you have complete control over the dogs that you love. If you're not the leader of their pack they may decide that somebody needs to be in charge and it may as well be him/her. That is one helluva lot of dog to debate rules with once they choose a course of action that may cost them their lives.
Okay, will take my strange shaped dog and my strange shaped arm and leave you in peace now. THANK YOU

[Obelix]

Can you give more detailed info please.What happened the days before?Sexe of your dog and the Rottweiler? age of both of them?Did confrontations before get more severe?(eg louder growls, hackles up etc..)It is very difficult to make a reconstruction and (try )
to explain what forgoing events led to this.(I am almost sure there must have been signs before that maybe you(or the owner of the Rottweiler did not notice or were aware of)You are not to blame anything but some more detailled info would be apreciated.

[TrinaJ]

I am so very sorry that you had to go through such a traumatic experience and my thoughts and prayers are with you. The mental recovery will take a while, perhaps longer than the physical injuries. Thank you also for defending this breed.

As to the why, the only thing I can think of was perhaps this dog 'thought' he was protecting the step son. I really have no idea and I guess no one really knows what goes on in the minds of animals. I just hope that you can get past the fear and enjoy walking with your dog again.

Trina