Need help - problem with territory/aggression

[Snow]

Hi all,
I've been on this forum for a wee bit, and have posted with this same problem and have been trying to correct with a trainer here in Edmonton. I've been trying to get her into obedience classes (she's had all Petsmart classes - maybe a mistake, I realize this now!) but have been running into problems getting her into formal classes. The trainer that I picked is quite good, but the problem being that I don't think Isis can get into classes until she gets over this dog aggression that she seems to have developed recently. I am sure that some of you have had this problem before....
When I take her on walks, as soon as she sees another dog she loses it, and is the stereotypical snarling bad Rottie that we have all heard about. HELP! I need to correct this behaviour, soon! She is not an aggressive dog in general, she loves our new addition (a pug) and they play (supervised) to no end! She is awesome, but this problem is recurrent - has been happening for approx 8 mos (surprisingly the same amount of time we got our new pug...). I am pretty sure that this behaviour may be a protective instinct as she treats our pug like a puppy.
The other training places that I called before deciding on this one all were leery of her - perhaps because she is a Rottie or the word "aggression" - I don't know. I just feel that no one wants to take her on - but she is a super good dog, just this one recurrent problem.
I will keep pushing getting her into classes but it seems that no one really wants to take her with her "aggression" problem. But it isn't really an aggression problem, I think I need help to train her!!
HELP!
Any advice? I have been working with her from what the trainer suggested with her private classes but would really like to be able to get her into formal classes!!!!

[AngelBunny]

You have her on a leash, out for a walk, she sees another dog, and she turns into Cujo, is that correct?

When she does this, what is your response? What do you do??

[Snow]

I get in between her and the other dog, the trainer said I should avoid these situations by diverting her into another path - and I have been doing that, the problem is that sometimes you have to go past another dog. I get between them and focus her on me, and not on the other dog, by pulling her back and trying (somewhat) to refocus on me - should I be running away with her? Removing her from the situation? It is usually across the street...

[OnyxGold1]

I had somewhat of a similar thing happen a couple of summers ago with my girl. For some odd reason she got it into her mind that black labs are DEMON DOGS and would try to charge at them on leash. Her behavior was getting worse and worse UNTIL it occurred to me that I was the problem in the equation. I would see another dog, tense because I KNEW what she was going to do and then my tension went right down the leash to the dog and she starts looking around going "well if mom is upset there MUST be something to be upset about" and then she would see the other dog and leap into her aggressive act. What I needed to do was to stay relaxed, focused on our walk and keep a positive mindset about our walk. I did always ensure that I kept enough leash space that IF she charged out she could never reach the other dog however I no longer tensed up and essentially told her that there was something she should be upset about. I solved the problem just that simply.

Perhaps that is what is happening with your girl? I know it is really tough to stay relaxed when you're worried like this about her behavior with other dogs.

I also had a rescue a few years back that did this a lot and one day it occurred to me that perhaps she wasn't acting like this because of aggression but more because she was such a fearful dog. I started off leash walking her at the off leash park and it was astounding that she would see another dog coming off leash and would skirt several hundred feet away through the trees to avoid actually meeting the other dog, and then would meet up with me on the trail after I had passed the dog. What I had been seeing with her on leash was not aggression per say but more extreme fear due to not having been socialized around other dogs was my suspicion.

If you would like some help with her you can contact me if you like. You will be able to find my website/contact information from the Rottweiler Club of Canada site.....I'm only a half hour from Edmonton and am there every day anyway!!

Hope this helps
Heather Peters

[AngelBunny]

Sorry--should've asked this before.

Your girl is how old?

[brunie's mom]

Yes, how old is the dog? How well socialized was she? Is she aggressive with all dogs? or just other female dogs? small dogs, yappy dogs?,etc.

What if she meets a dog off leash what would happen then?

I would take up Heathers offer to advise you of where to go for help.
It's kind of dumb for a class not wanting to take you till you get help. This is what a class is for.

Gina

[Snow]

Thanks so much all for your input. Isis is 2 years old and she has never had problems with other dogs until about approx 6mos ago - she was in beginner, intermediate, and advanced classes at Petsmart, the classes were pretty big with differing types of dogs. We used to take her to dogparks and Petsmart regularly until she started turning into Cujo (as Angelbunny described it). She seems to be particularly aggressive if the other dog starts barking - which is usually the little yappy ones.
Heather, I will most definitely be giving you a call - I really need some help and am worried that I won't be able to correct this behaviour - pretty upset about it, esp since I am pretty sure it is my fault, perhaps even just my ignorance! Thanks so very much for offering, it means alot.

I'm pretty frustrated with trainers right now as well, esp since (as you noted, Gina,) they should be there to help...
Thanks again guys and i'll keep you posted on her progress,
Jen

[AngelBunny]

I think Isis is doing what she's doing--being a Cujo on a leash because you're letting her. You aren't being emphatic enough in putting a stop to her bad manners.

Rottie bitches generally mature around 2 yo. If Isis had nice manners where other dogs were concerrned up until fairly recently (and it sounds as tho she did) and her manners aren't nice any more (and they most certainly don't sound like they are), I think she's turned into a butthead because 1) she maturing and she's not a sweet puppy any more and 2) you let her get away with bad manners.

I think you need to come down on her very hard and make it perfectly, 100% clear that you will not tolerate her being anything but a lamb on a leash and that she will be corrected hard for any infraction. As soon as she settles, throw a party complete with yummy treats. Since Isis is a Rottie, she'll figure out in no time that it's so much nicer when she behaves around other dogs because you're sooo nice to her and Cujo if she doesn't.

It's the old carrot and stick.

Our youngest dog is bitch intolerant and she regards small dogs as prey. I've been on Mox's back her entire life (she's abt 8 yo now), reminding her it'll be a very bad thing if she doesn't mind her manners. I show her in performance events, so it's highly important she doesn't act on her tendencies.

[tigerlady81]

hi well my male when i found him had the same problem.. but found out it was me and his leash i would tighten the leash becuse i was worried about him becoming a crazy nut..when i figered out that keeping the leash slack and not become worried then he was ok now i can take him any were and he is good..also when he is with your little dog and they are playing do you say anything to him like play nice thats a baby..becuse when i am out and i see a little dog i always say "thats a baby" to my dog and he behaves becuse it is what i would say to him when my friend was over with her chi..

[sweetlee]

Oh these two year olds. Guess they are maturing and wanting the world to know they are "tough"?
I agree with AngelBunny, time to crack down.
I have been having problems with Dodge but not out on walks, it's in the house barking visciously at the mailman, ups guy, people walking down the street.
I looked at my part in this, and realized I had slacked off on my attitude towards him, and was probably treating him as an equal. Big mistake. So back to NILIF for the dog. No coddling him, no free treats, longer waits at the door when we go in and out. I am reestablishing this as MY territory, and I will decide who is ok and who is not. I have decided to be very firm, but always fair.
Have you ever used a pinch collar? They are great for walking unruly dogs, but you MUST know how to fit and use it properly, or the dog will learn to ignore the thing. And it is not for lifetime use, only for training.
If you do, I would use this for awhile, it really gives alot of control with not much effort. If not, hopefully a trainer you find will show you the proper use of one. I would carry tasty treats with me, chicken, cheese, hotdogs, all treats are not created equal. when the dog sees another, even before she gets worked up put her into a sit/stay while holding the treat under her nose. Start treating her.
Most dogs won't bother with other dogs in the area if they are being fed really tasty snacks. Being bad = no treat, plus a small pop on the collar.
Sitting still and being calm means the bar is open, keep treating until the dog is out of sight or at least out of mind.
Hopefully you will find a trainer soon, nothing will replace that.

Sharon