Is there any hope for me?

[Sadgirl]

Hello- I’m new to this forum and in fact it’s the first time I’ve done this type of thing at all (so please bear with me!) My husband & I are experienced lab owners fostering a rottie mix of unknown history and age. He is over 5 years old, 100 pounds and comes with a growl. I see that’s a classic rott trait- I am in the process of educating myself. He has growled when I’ve approached him or petted him in some situations and usually growls if either of us touch him just after putting his bowl down. We have taken the food away in braver (dumber?) moments and he has never snapped, snarled or bared his teeth. He has never progressed past this growl- although with my reprimand it only gets louder. However, if I command him to sit he will promptly do it. I do this to break the cycle & it usually works. He is very friendly with all other dogs (including our 5 yr. old lab) approaching strangers and kids. (We do not have kids ourselves.) He loves to retrieve and is a blast to play with. He stays by us off leash and walks wonderfully on the leash. We can play with him and take his toys & he is fine. I’ve never seen a dog that takes food from your hand more gently. He has been in our house for 3 months. He adores my husband, but has this occasional issue with me. I have made a mistake keeping him this long without getting a trainer, but the finances aren’t there. I guess I was hoping it would end when he got used to us and his new home. I just brought him back to my humane society last night to give myself some space to think & we miss him terribly! My husband & I want to adopt him, but I am sometimes uneasy around him, since there are those moments he warns me with that growl. I must make him uncomfortable for some reason, and/or he is bossing me around considering me down at the bottom of the pack. He surely knows he’s got the edge over me, despite my attempt to act strong. I’m just looking for an educated opinion on the likelihood I can get him to stop behaving this way. He puts his head in my lap one minute and avoids me the next. I can accept it if he doesn’t have the lovey-dovey Labrador attitude all the time. I cannot accept any type of food aggression or threats when I approach. I suppose I will need to find some extra money for professional help, but generally speaking do you think my chances are very good of correcting the behavior of an adult rottie? Do I have a chance of bringing him back & taking charge this time, now that I know what to expect? Any input from you knowledgeable folks would be much appreciated!

[Jaidann]

Originally Posted by Sadgirl

I have made a mistake keeping him this long without getting a trainer, but the finances aren’t there. I guess I was hoping it would end when he got used to us and his new home.

In all honesty, and please understand I am NOT trying to give you a snide remark, but if this is in fact the case, IMO bringing him back would be a mistake. Training is a must. If it's a financial struggle for you to do this then it's best you don't try again.

I applaud you for wanting to foster and give a good home to this guy but perhaps it is better to wait to do these things until you can afford it better :).

This is all just IMO.

[zorro13]

Sadgirl: There are many ways to work a dog thru issues. But, since you stated you feel uneasy at times around him, granted he knows this as well. You already stated some food aggression type problems, what are the other situations where he growls at you and why? These need to be stated. Many times, posters describe dog behaviors but leave out their own behaviors and many times dog behavior comes because of owner's behaviors. Obedience training is always a good thing, but keep in mind, one can have an obedienced trained dog and still be dealing with these types of issues, so in-home manners need to be learned as well.

Starting with food aggression: Stop taking the bowl away. Instead, at times, you can drop some cheese, meat, treats, etc in the bowl creating a positive feeding environment while your dog is eating. Not knowing how bad he is with food, hand feeding his meal may be necessary as well, then to gradually putting the bowl down while still close by while the dog eats. Anytime you work thru issues you always want to work in your comfort zone, gradually increasing as you build your confidence.

I also can't tell fully actually what you are dealing with here, but you can work him a few times throughout your day giving some training lessons on lead. Always use treats and praise for positive behaviors. It may be he is bossing you around, you will need to change your behaviors and interactions with him. Instead of going to the dog, get in the habit of getting your dog to come to you and then rewarding for that. If he doesn't have a good recall, you can put him on a long lead and teach that in the backyard as well as in the house. You've had him for 3 months, does he have full rein in your home? If so, I would start crating him as well. Give him a structured day. If you can describe all situations, this would be more helpful.

[SABELLESMOM]

Any breed or mix of dog can have food aggression issues. To lay that down to a classic Rottie trait is untrue and unfair. He's a foster. Fosters sometimes come with issues.

I see you've grown fond of him. He's at the beginning stages, and doing quite well, of learning to trust you. Dogs are very forgiving. They are capable of getting past many horrible things that may have occurred in their lives and still find love for humans. He seems to be doing that just fine.

Let me ask. Why are you finding it necessary to disturb him when he eats? Leave him be. You don't and may never know what situations have led to this. He may have had to resort to growling to get and keep his share of this very valuable comodity. Food sustains life!

It's an issue you can work on much later when trust has built between you. You can enhance trust by classes. You will never regret one moment of positive training you put into and yes...pay for...with your dog. Find the $. It's worth more than you can imagine to have a competent, positive method trainer show you and your husband how to train him. You must do it...not the trainer. The bond will grow beyond your dreams.

I do think you should be the primary trainer as you seem to have a bit of uneasiness with him. He's already a good dog, do the several sets of classes and you will understand what makes him tick. You will be rewarded many times over in the returning loyalty, love and devotion from him.

Once you've begun building, he will respond and you can begin to address the food agression issue. There are many here who have more experience with that than I.

There is one thing you can do now. Make him do something to earn his bowl being placed down for him. Ask for a nice "down." Once all elbows and butt are down say "Good boy!" and simply set down his food.

[hokisteph5]

You've already gotten some good advice. I've posted this link before on the gift of growling, but I think it applies here too.

It changed my views on growling. It also made me realize I would much rather have a dog that growled instead of one that didn't.

Beyond that, I will say that before I got my male, who's now 3, I had never taken any formal dog training classes. No one in my immediately family had taken classes either.

I didn't know what to expect when I took him to Puppy Kindergarten, but I was surprised by how much I enjoyed class and the training process. I love the bonding I do with my dogs, I like being able to ask the trainer how to handle an issue I may be having with the dogs, etc.

There have been instances when money was tight and I thought training classes' were a luxury. Unfortunately, one of the times occurred when my male went through his teenager phase 2 years ago. I was able to find a one night CGC workshop that cost a third of the price of regular classes, but was enough to remind my dog good behavior from him was expected, not optional.

Keep in mind that you can also have fun with your dog, it doesn't always have to be an all work and no play way of life. For example, I enjoy taking my dogs on my boat and taking them out swimming at a nearby lake. My female loves to put her front paws on the front seat while we go down the lake. She seems to love the wind in her face.

[tla0126]

I agree with SABELLESMOM... Many dogs can come with food aggression, even puppies have it. The thing about a puppy, is they are a puppy! It is easy for them to trust you. With adult dogs, it takes some work. I would suggest feeding him in a crate, let him eat, and when he's done, ya'll can hang out again! That way, he'll feel more comfortable and so will you. He sounds like a great boy with some workable issues. Good luck!!

[Sadgirl]

Oh no, I wasn’t implying food aggression was a rottweiler issue- believe me, I have experience with lots of dogs. I learned long ago not to judge or assume, by appearance or breed. I guess I shouldn’t have used that term anyway- it’s hard to express things clearly when trying to be concise. He isn’t aggressive about all food- he seems possessive of his food in the bowl. With my own dogs, I’m used to the “roll over on my back- pet me, do what you want to me- you’re the boss” personality. “Moose” is not like that, so I know I need to adjust. I am willing to accept his more aloof personality and not be touch-feely with him, but I don’t want to accept that he “growls” sometimes if I approach him or sit by him- (regardless of the presence of food.). I was kind of “testing” him by the touching at meal time. No, I don’t need to do that, but if he is threatening me that’s a bad thing. If its unlikely this behavior would change I don’t want to invest any more emotionally! If I can train him to not have this tendency to growl at me I could invest time and a little money into professional help. I am reading that the rottweiler temperament is a more dominant one, where owners must actively, assertively take charge. If my “Moose” is over 5, in general- is it realistic for me to be hoping I could alter this growling behavior with time & training? I recently spent over $5000 to treat my dog’s blastomycosis so it certainly isn’t an issue that I won’t spend money on a dog. Generally speaking- is it likely I’m up for a huge battle here? I appreciate the input I’ve gotten on this- thank you all!

[fostermom]

I only pull adult dogs for rescue and find them very easy to work with/train. There is a thread in the rescue section right now that I started (What to do when bringing a new dog home) that you might find helpful, although it really is a bare bones outline...do a search using the search engine on this site for food aggression and anything else that might concern you
Leashing a dog to you allows you to set the rules in a non-confrontational way....and it is important that your dog understand that you are the one deciding what is appropriate behavior in your home...again, check out that thread.
I had a foster who was fine around his food...when he adopted, the husband felt he needed to show Zach who was in charge, so started putting his hands in Zach's food bowl while Zach was eating...what he ended up with was a food aggressive dog because by doing that, he convinced Zach that his food needed to be protected. Don't pick up his food bowl or mess with his food...if you want, casually walk around near him while he's eating (but far enough away that he doesn't become defensive) and toss him random treats...convince him that good things happen when you're near...certainly the easiest way to deal with this is to simply leave him alone when he's eating as others have mentioned.
I paid a trainer for three one-on-one sessions with Zach as he had a much more dominant personality than I was used to...and it was well worth EVERY penny. These weren't traditional obedience classes, but rather the trainer showed me how to interact (or not interact in the case of him jumping up on me!) with Zach...how to trade-up, how to establish control of an alpha dog in a non-confrontational way...and boy, was it an eye opener....and I would guess many trainers would reduce their fee for a rescue (mine only charged $75 for all three sessions).
I'm not clear in what other instances he's growling at you so can't offer anything there.
Here is a link that provides a search engine for trainers in your area...best of luck...hope things work out.
Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources

[hokisteph5]

Originally Posted by Sadgirl

I am reading that the rottweiler temperament is a more dominant one, where owners must actively, assertively take charge.

I'm no expert, but to me another member awhile back described the Rottweiler breed perfectly. They said this breed is one that will every so often check to see if the rules are still in place.

Mine will do it sometimes and when they get shot down they'll either have an attitude like "it was worth a try" or they'll comply, but let me know with a bark they're not in agreement.

The key, IMO, is consistency of what I expect from them.

[SABELLESMOM]

In all likelihood, you CAN restructure what is going on regarding the food bowl. You've said he listens, he get's along with other dogs, he takes food gently from your hand. This does not sound like a dog who is going to give you a "hard time." He gas already shown you he is willing and intellegent. How much more do you need?

Let's see if we can get some semblance of order, here. Feeding time: Ask for a "down." Wait for a full down before placing his food in front of him. Then ignore him.

Let him eat in peace, other than general proximity. If you have to move near his bowl, drop a dice of cheese into it, or a dice of ham, steak, chicken, or something else of high value. I do not use a crate to deed for this very reason. It puts a barrier between you and the dog. That's what you want to eliminate.

Otherwise, physically, at least ignore him. Though, it is OK to speak to him in friendly tones, without bending over him.

Lastly, get into a well recommended class, one using more positive methods.

Does that sound like something you can do? Of course it does.

The question I'm beginning to find here is a general aloofness from you. You seem to be saying, between the lines that you are keeping yourself away a bit due to things you have heard. The latter comment about the dominant nature of the Rottweiler.

That does not mean they are evil. It simply means they need to be treated with strong , fair, self assured confidence...by you.

[webangel2b]

Are you sure the growling when he's being petted is really a growl?

The very first rott that I was around kinda freaked me out when she did what we now know as the rottie purr. Dixie is fond of a soft to playful growl during petting and playing. Rotts talk, if only we could understand.

I just hope that the growl you're hearing is one of love not of threat.

[Sadgirl]

To clarify (and defend myself): I am not attacking the breed! I am sorry that Sabellesmom twice thought I was doing so. I am an active humane society volunteer and dog lover, but I have only owned 3 dogs in my home. They were all eager to please, eager for attention and I was fortunate I needed no help in training. I am having a different experience with this dog. He happens to be a Rottweiler. We all, as dog lovers, know that each dog is different and each breed has differences. I respect the fact that not all dogs roll over on their tummies from day one and wait to see what you want them to do next. I’m just trying to gather information on a breed that I know has a different GENERAL temperament than the GENERAL temperament of the 3 labs I have raised. I never meant to give the impression I think it’s a bad temperament- I’m not sure why that was assumed. I just wanted to gather information from experienced Rottweiler owners. I have gotten great information, and great advice. I feel more optimistic about his behavior toward me actually, and the ability to work with it. I thank you all for your input and honesty!!
P.S. Oh yes… if only we could understand their talking! Wouldn’t that be grand?

[SABELLESMOM]

Oh, one last thing...in dog language, it's considered a a bit of a threat to come at him head on, or to bend over him. It's oppressive. That is, at least until he adopts you, as he undoubtedly will.

Remember how well he's doing very well at adjusting. He wants to belong and be loved by you. Give him some air to breathe and some time.

We adopted a Cocker Spaniel with so-o-o-o-o many, issues! A little kindness, affection and training...giving him some space, not pushing issues too soon, and we had a wonderful dog in no time! Literally, everyone on the street fell in love with him. He's 17, now, and except for recent senility... perfect!

Let him have that "space" for a while. It hurts no one. Your approach should be slightly off to the side, and confident! I can't emphasize your confidence enough.

You can do this. You know you can. Just follow a few simple rules, consistently and fairly.

[debbiej]

I agree with the advice to give him space. let him warm up to you. be fair, be consistant, honest, be a leader. make him sit to get supper, let him earn his privileges. Many dogs are not real comfortable or happy with the way we humans show affection. earn his respect before expecting affection, and respect him enough to understand how he feels about his space. I have two dogs I adopted as young adults. one a bit of a tough guy who now is a love. but he doesn't like hugs, and I don't sit on the floor with him and he is a wonderful dog. Perhaps you can't afford a trainer right now, but signing up for good obedience classes will do be a huge help in bonding and communication. best of luck.

[fostermom]

I raised my children with goldens (your oh, so eager to please type dogs)...when I went to adopt a dog from a shelter a rotti who looked overwhelmed by the shelter scenario grabbed my heartstrings...and after having Reno, I could never go back to goldens!!! I AM hooked on rottweilers. But the basics of what both breeds need is the same...structure, training, consistency, and rewarding appropriate behavior (decide how you want the dog to behave in your home, show him CONSISTENTLY..and let him know when he gets it right).
The adolescent I fostered had quite a mind of his own...he was happy to comply with what you wanted, but he HAD to be shown in a way that made HIM decide that he really wanted to do it...the old school dog training concepts that I raised my goldens on didn't cut it with him...I learned an enormous amount from that dog (and of course the trainer who showed me the error of my ways)...each dog is different...one method of training doesn't work with every dog. This dog is telling you he's not happy with some of the things you're doing, but in the end complys....so maybe you need to start trying a different approach. Not messing with his food was mentioned numerous times here...not trying to pet him on top the head, not bending over him, etc was also mentioned.. the basics of Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) training was mentioned..if you could tell us more specifics about what you were doing when he growled at you, perhaps other things could be suggested.
I am soooo glad I fostered Zach...I learned so much from him....and btw, his new family LOVES him....the wife is doing advanced obedience with him and Zach is getting perfect scores....rotti's are a working breed so have bred into them the capacity to make up their own minds about things (independent thinkers!)...you might get some with a lab type temperment (there are lots of rotti's that are loveable lugs out there) but there are some that have to be convinced it's THEIR idea to do things your way...like Zach!
Perhaps people on this board could suggest some good books which might help...and I would still urge you to take a few sessions with a trainer who can show you how to use positive reinforcement in working with this boy.
Again, best of luck.