Rottie attacked by unleashed dog, yet is blamed?

[CleasMommy]

Hey BrianG any updates?

[TrinaJ]

Check your Council By-Laws. There may be something there that states animals must be leashed at all times when outside of their property. If this is so, and that dog was unleashed, then you should not be responsible for ANY of the vet bills. Afterall if this dog was leashed the incident wouldn't have happened.

At the RCV you must be 18 to have control of a rottweiler. My Jett is 7 and 1/2 MONTHS old and she is as strong as an ox. I cant imagine a 10 year old having much, if any, control over a rottweiler, they aren't physically capable of it. I think its great that she wants to take part in exercising and trining your dog, but the dog should always be under the control of an adult. Big dog, small dog, any dog attack is frightening and I would hate to see someone unnecessarily hurt because they weren't strong enough to control the dog. Your dog was defending itself, its the nature of a dog. However, if You had been in control of your animal, rather than your daughter, you could have prevented your dog picking up the smaller dog and tossing it around. You are physically capable of that, she was not.

You live and learn, but I would not be paying for something where the fault was primarily the off leash dog owners.

Trina

[TrinaJ]

I just read the Virginia Beach By Laws... http://www.portsmouthhumanesociety.o...=s383m2697.pdf

Section 5-73

Sec. 5-73. Keeping dogs under restraint; leash law. (a) It shall be unlawful for the owner of any dog to permit the dog to go upon any public street, sidewalk or right-of-way, excluding the public beaches of the city, unless it is kept secured by a leash or lead or other means of restraint not harmful or injurious to the dog and under the control of a responsible person capable of physically restraining the dog.

(b) Any person who does not restrain his dog, in accordance with this section, whether such person be the owner or custodian of such dog, shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The animal control officer or police officer may issue a summons to any person he finds in violation of this section.

(c) (1) This section shall not apply to any person who uses a dog under his direct supervision while lawfully hunting, while engaged in a supervised formal obedience training class or show, or during formally sanctioned field trials. (
2) This section shall not apply to any person south of the trace line beginning at the intersection of Elbow Road and the Chesapeake-Virginia Beach city boundary line; thence northeastwardly along Elbow Road to Salem Road; thence southeastwardly along Salem Road to North Landstown Road; thence northeastwardly along Landstown Road to Princess Anne Road; thence southeastwardly along Princess Anne Road to Sandbridge Road; thence eastwardly along Sandbridge Road to its intersection with the Atlantic Ocean; with the exception of the subdivisions of Bellwood Estates, Foxfire and Three Oaks and the communities of Sandbridge and Lag O Mar, and any other areas zoned for residential use. (Ord. No. 1327, 9-13-82; Ord. No. 2281, 6-28-94)

[Hope]

Originally Posted by Anne

Yes, it could have been a Pit Bull but it wasn't. It could have been any other breed but it wasn't. I don't see what that has to do with people allowing their small dogs to run off lead and bite/harrass other dogs, be they large or small.

If this small dog that attacked the on lead Rottweiler had been under control this would not have happened. I do agree and the OP has acknowledged that his young daughter should not have been walking the dog without an adult present.



So you would be ok with your large dog being bitten by a small off lead dog
That wouldn't make you angry?
The Rottweiler was defending itself after being bitten by the other dog. It did not launch an attack for no reason.

Both parties were at fault, end of story. A child should not be able to walk an adult rottweiler without strict supervision and no dog should be allowed off-leash off one's property line to attack another dog or person. This is common sense. Had the other dog been a more aggressive breed, someone could have been really hurt and THAT IS IMPORTANT!

Now, my male rottweiler has been "attacked" by small dogs all of his life, especially when he was intact. Do you think he was allowed to just pick up some small breed and start shaking the crap out of it! First of all a tiny dog biting at a large rottweiler does NOT give the rottweiler's owner the right to allow the rottweiler to demolish the smaller aggressor. Second, had the rottweiler in question been handled by an adult able to take charge of the situation, the adult may have been able to stop the altercation before it started. Furthermore, I question the integrity and soundness of a rottweiler that feels the need to be so aggressive with such a small dog. My dog has been "attacked" many times and normally just removed himself from a non real threat rather then react aggressively, which I have NEVER allowed.

I have a neighbor's dog that runs in my yard all the time (not any more since we erected a fence around around the property). The small dog charges my Mondo with teeth showing and snarling. My reaction to my rottweiler, put your backside on the ground and let me deal with the small dog myself, and my dog is conditioned enough to know not to test me.

The owner of the small dog was in the wrong to assume that a small dog causes small damage as I have witnessed children truly traumatized and mauled by small dogs. If this child is traumatized, and I doubt this would traumatize a child, then it is on the parents to help the child. It was the responsibility of the Parent to prevent this situation by not allowing the rottweiler to be walked unsupervised. Then it was the small dog owner's responsibility to control their dog, everyone failed in their responsibilities in this case and as I said before, everyone should be happy that this situation did not result in death or harm to a human.

[tla0126]

Originally Posted by Hope

Furthermore, I question the integrity and soundness of a rottweiler that feels the need to be so aggressive with such a small dog. My dog has been "attacked" many times and normally just removed himself from a non real threat rather then react aggressively, which I have NEVER allowed.

Just because a dog is aggressive with other dogs does NOT mean he lacks "integrity or soundess". Little animals can DEFINATELY bring out prey drive in a working class dog. Even beyond that, some great sweet family pets just aren't other dog friendly no matter what size they are. Just because YOUR dog acts a certain way, doesn't mean that is the way it has to be or is for all dogs. Bottom line is, the way he acts with other dogs does not define his temperment. He obviously gets along fine with his family, I beleive we can all assume that.

Secondly, for anyone else reading this post, the OP realizes that he shouldn't have let the 10 year old walk the dog. He has already mentioned that and has said that she now accompanies him on walks instead of doing it herself, which I beleive is wonderful. Just wanted to reinterate that point just in case people overlooked it, because it keeps being brought up.

[Janus'sMom]

Originally Posted by tla0126

Just because a dog is aggressive with other dogs does NOT mean he lacks "integrity or soundess". Little animals can DEFINATELY bring out prey drive in a working class dog. Even beyond that, some great sweet family pets just aren't other dog friendly no matter what size they are. Just because YOUR dog acts a certain way, doesn't mean that is the way it has to be or is for all dogs. Bottom line is, the way he acts with other dogs does not define his temperment. He obviously gets along fine with his family, I beleive we can all assume that.

I agree with you... I just wasn't sure how to word it myself

Not to forget that any dog friendly dog would or could have reacted the same way the OP's dog did. It's called DEFENDING ITSELF. And for all we know, maybe the OP's dog felt that the little girl was in danger and was protecting her after he got bit. There are just so many possabilities as to what made the OP's dog bite the smaller dog, and to sit there and say that all large breed dogs should just sit there and let it's owner/handler (whatever other cercumstances may be) take care of the situation because it's a smaller dog is beyond my understanding. There are some small dogs that can cause some major damage to a larger dog (IE, one that comes to my mind would be a Bull dog, not a pitt bull or a bull terrior, but an English Bull dog, they can lock their jaws and hold on for life like any other larger dog).

Is it also safe to say that you would expect your dog to sit by and watch you getting bitten by a smaller dog if you couldn't stop it from it's attack and redirects to you instead of your dog? Cause that's what it sounds like to me. And how is a rottweiler suppose to know the difference between a small dog and a regular size dog? Most dogs are smaller than the Rotti or about the same size. What about medium size dogs? I'm not saying all this to belittle or insult you. I'm just trying to understand your way of logic.

All I'm saying is, it sounds to me like the OP's dog did what came naturally and instinctually to it. The rotti defended itself and possibly the little girl. End of scenario, end of disgussion. What you expect of your dog is not fair to expect for every large breed dog. I sure wouldn't expect Janus to sit there if another dog of any size is attacking him.

PS... correct me if I'm wrong and completely lost my mind. But wasn't the Rottweiler bred to defend live stock and it's master from harm, be it another preditor or human. So isn't it safe to say that the OP's dog reacted the way it was bred to? Granted the child was not live stock, but there was another (small) preditor coming to harm him and possibly her (agression redirected).

[Anne]

Originally Posted by Hope

Both parties were at fault, end of story. A child should not be able to walk an adult rottweiler without strict supervision and no dog should be allowed off-leash off one's property line to attack another dog or person

Which is precisely what I pointed out in my first post in this thread. A 10yo child should not be in charge of a Rottweiler. All dogs should be leashed outside of their own property.

Now, my male rottweiler has been "attacked" by small dogs all of his life, especially when he was intact. Do you think he was allowed to just pick up some small breed and start shaking the crap out of it!

And where were you whilst these multiple attacks on your dog for all of his life were taking place?

First of all a tiny dog biting at a large rottweiler does NOT give the rottweiler's owner the right to allow the rottweiler to demolish the smaller aggressor

Exaggeration much? The Rottweiler did not demolish the small dog. It defended itself against an unwarranted and unexpected attack. Humans act in exactly the same way. If someone or something is attacking us we take swift action to defend ourselves. It's instinctive in humans and animals.

Second, had the rottweiler in question been handled by an adult able to take charge of the situation, the adult may have been able to stop the altercation before it started

I doubt an adult would have been able to prevent this since the unleashed small dog came up from behind, unless of course said human had eyes in the back of their head. The altercation had already happened...the small dog bit the Rottweiler on the hind leg. We may be in a position to prevent a situation if we see it coming.

Furthermore, I question the integrity and soundness of a rottweiler that feels the need to be so aggressive with such a small dog. My dog has been "attacked" many times and normally just removed himself from a non real threat rather then react aggressively, which I have NEVER allowed

If my Rottweiler had been attacked many times I would be keeping my wits about me after the first time in an attempt to ensure it didn't happen again. Thus, I've been able to protect my dog from being repeatedly attacked. In fact my dog has only once had small cross bred 'oodle' latch onto her neck. She came up to me with small dog still attached. I removed it and suggested to its owner that she control the dog.

My dog is non reactive to other dogs, is excellent at reading body language. She positions herself directly at heel if she thinks another dog is showing aggressive body language. I guess she has the integrity and soundness of which you speak, plus she trusts I will protect her.

I have a neighbor's dog that runs in my yard all the time (not any more since we erected a fence around around the property). The small dog charges my Mondo with teeth showing and snarling. My reaction to my rottweiler, put your backside on the ground and let me deal with the small dog myself, and my dog is conditioned enough to know not to test me

Good that you have put up a fence to protect your dog from a snarling, teeth baring dog. I had suitable fencing in place before I moved into my property, it was my first consideration. How effective were you in dealing with the situation of the snarling intruder if it was happening 'all the time?'

It was the responsibility of the Parent to prevent this situation by not allowing the rottweiler to be walked unsupervised. Then it was the small dog owner's responsibility to control their dog, everyone failed in their responsibilities in this case

Yes, I think we have all agreed on that.

[Hope]

This sounds ridiculous, a small dog bites a massive rottweiler and people are acting like the dog had a right to "defend" itself.

Anne, I don't like someone implying that I "allowed" my rottweiler to be attacked. Any time a small dog passed me in the past and lashed out, my dog ignored it as he did not feel threatened or I quickly reacted to pull my dog out of harm's way, period! What is so hard about that! Intact males seem to be on the hit list of small dogs, once fixed the problem sub-sided.

Furthermore, if my dog was attacked in the past, I NEVER would allow him to just lean into the dog. I only allowed my dog ONCE to defend himself because a large dog attacked my rottweiler while the aggressor was off-leash and my male was on leash and the owners were unable to verbally recall their dog. Concern for my dog's life (which there is basically none with small dogs) was the reason for allowing my dog to defend himself.

God, if a child came up and kicked you in the knee because he was acting like a brat, does that give you the right to back-hand him and send him to the hospital? I mean, you the right to defend youself, right?

By the way, someone mentioned that the rottweiler was "defending the owner" From what? There is a difference between a dog that is "defending itself or owner" and a dog that is plain allowed to be improperly handled and aggressive.

[Jaidann]

Hope, perhaps this article will interest you.

He Just Wants to Say "HI!" Article on rude dogs & dealing with aggression by Suzanne Clothier

It's an interesting take on how often times "rude dogs" are deemed the innocent ones while the one who was defending his "space" is considered the aggressor. It was written by a fairly well known dog behaviorist. I often recommend this article to people as it really opened my eyes as to how and why dogs react the way that they do. It also helped me to understand better what my dog requires from me as an owner.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Hope

God, if a child came up and kicked you in the knee because he was acting like a brat, does that give you the right to back-hand him and send him to the hospital? I mean, you the right to defend youself, right?

Where does it say the attacking dog was a puppy?

If a short person comes up and kicks me in the knee, you're damn right it gives me the right to back hand him and send him to the hospital! Why should it be okay for a short person to bully a large person? Your argument makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Hope

By the way, someone mentioned that the rottweiler was "defending the owner" From what? There is a difference between a dog that is "defending itself or owner" and a dog that is plain allowed to be improperly handled and aggressive.

I would say the Rottie was defending himself, because his threshold was compromised by the attacking dog. Believe it or not, some dogs are very uncomfortable, especially when leashed, with being approached by other dogs, especially those that are unleashed and actually attack them.

Hope, answer this....if a large dog is loose and attacks a small dog that is leashed and with its owner, which dog is at fault?

[Anne]

Originally Posted by Hope

This sounds ridiculous, a small dog bites a massive rottweiler and people are acting like the dog had a right to "defend" itself

Yes the dog did have the right to defend itself. As mentioned, both humans and animals react instinctively to an unexpected attack and attempt to stop the attack in any way that is available to them.

Anne, I don't like someone implying that I "allowed" my rottweiler to be attacked.

Can't see where I said that but I do wonder why your dog has suffered many attacks for all of its life.

God, if a child came up and kicked you in the knee because he was acting like a brat, does that give you the right to back-hand him and send him to the hospital? I mean, you the right to defend youself, right

I hope you read the article kindly linked by Jaidann. It may explain why children and puppies get away with appallingly rude behaviour...for a limited period of time. However this thread is not about the behaviour of children but about the reaction of a dog who was bitten without warning and understandably defended itself in the way dogs do.

[Janus'sMom]

Originally Posted by Hope

This sounds ridiculous, a small dog bites a massive rottweiler and people are acting like the dog had a right to "defend" itself.

Anne, I don't like someone implying that I "allowed" my rottweiler to be attacked. Any time a small dog passed me in the past and lashed out, my dog ignored it as he did not feel threatened or I quickly reacted to pull my dog out of harm's way, period! What is so hard about that! Intact males seem to be on the hit list of small dogs, once fixed the problem sub-sided.

Furthermore, if my dog was attacked in the past, I NEVER would allow him to just lean into the dog. I only allowed my dog ONCE to defend himself because a large dog attacked my rottweiler while the aggressor was off-leash and my male was on leash and the owners were unable to verbally recall their dog. Concern for my dog's life (which there is basically none with small dogs) was the reason for allowing my dog to defend himself.

God, if a child came up and kicked you in the knee because he was acting like a brat, does that give you the right to back-hand him and send him to the hospital? I mean, you the right to defend youself, right?

By the way, someone mentioned that the rottweiler was "defending the owner" From what? There is a difference between a dog that is "defending itself or owner" and a dog that is plain allowed to be improperly handled and aggressive.

IMHO every dog, no matter what breed, be it Poodle, Rottweiler, or Great Dane has the right to defend itself from it's attacker, whether the attacker be as small as a mouse or as big as an ellephant! Just like you have the right to defend yourself from your attacker whether they be a short person (NOT A CHILD) or a pro football player! It is your right, as much as your dog's right to defend itself. The "small dog" is NOT the equivillant to a child. If that's the way you think, then I don't know what to say.

And as far as "someone mention that the rottweiler was "defending the owner"" It's apparent that the dog felt threatened. AND BY ALL MEANS, THE SMALLER DOG ALREADY BIT HIM! How much more of a threat does the other dog have to be before the rottweiler has the right to defend himself? How long are you going to wait to defend yourself from an attacker half your size? Are you going to wait till you're half dead? Or here's an even better question... If you have an 18yr old son who was beaten on his walk, would you tell him to not defend himself, and just lay there and take a beating? I would hope not.

The smaller dog in this case ACTUALLY BIT the "massive" rottweiler. Whom apparently came from behind the rottweiler. How is anyone suppose to "defend their dog" from an attack when it's coming from behind and they don't know it's going to happen and have no warning? Are you implying that we must be psychic to know when another animal will cross our path to aviod them? Because to me, that's what you're making it sound like.

IMO it sounds like you're putting too much human thought into this when its a simple means of instincts of survival. These are DOGS we're talking about, not schoolyard bullying around. They don't sit there and think "well this dog is about the size of my foot, if I bite it once I could kill it, or if I just put my foot down hard enough to hurt it, it might go away."

There is also a difference between redirecting your dog and conditioning your dog to not pay attention to another dog that has not BITTEN YET and actually expecting a dog to ignore the other dog that has already bitten him and possibly coming back for more.

[dafrnhm]

My dog has been attacked 3 times by 2 different dogs. My rotty is so harmful he panics and doesn't know how to react, he just stands there like he is being told off. He doesn't even attempt to defend himself, i actually kicked the dog off him once, which i got blamed for. At the end of the day, if your spitefull little dog is attacking mine then im gonna defend him if he doesn't.

I have never complained about these dogs to the police but it annoys me so much that rotty's have bad names but its the other dogs that are problems.

[fatheroftwins]

any dog that runs up on my dog in a threatening manner, regardless of size, is getting kicked into to next week. i refuse to allow any dog to bite my dog while im walking her.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by Hope

This sounds ridiculous, a small dog bites a massive rottweiler and people are acting like the dog had a right to "defend" itself.

Anne, I don't like someone implying that I "allowed" my rottweiler to be attacked. Any time a small dog passed me in the past and lashed out, my dog ignored it as he did not feel threatened or I quickly reacted to pull my dog out of harm's way, period! What is so hard about that! Intact males seem to be on the hit list of small dogs, once fixed the problem sub-sided.

Furthermore, if my dog was attacked in the past, I NEVER would allow him to just lean into the dog. I only allowed my dog ONCE to defend himself because a large dog attacked my rottweiler while the aggressor was off-leash and my male was on leash and the owners were unable to verbally recall their dog. Concern for my dog's life (which there is basically none with small dogs) was the reason for allowing my dog to defend himself.

God, if a child came up and kicked you in the knee because he was acting like a brat, does that give you the right to back-hand him and send him to the hospital? I mean, you the right to defend youself, right?

By the way, someone mentioned that the rottweiler was "defending the owner" From what? There is a difference between a dog that is "defending itself or owner" and a dog that is plain allowed to be improperly handled and aggressive.

Janus's Mom: thanks for posting this quote and bringing voice of reason to the owner of this quote.
This has now come 2 months past the incident. No action has been taken on either side. The husband asked me to pay 70 percent and I told him no, not at all, I had made the effort 2 weeks before and was refused by the wife and the "nasty" breeder lady.

To Hope:
For Your Information: 2 weeks ago I was walking my dog on a leash. 2 owners with a pit bull and a lab both off leash came bounding to my dog, I pulled him away and got the pit off him with no damage. The owners looked at me stupified and I said a few explicatives but chose not to call animal control and just walked my dog home and calmed down. I've had the same experience at a park, with no issues because I controlled my dog and the other parties seem very confused why nothing happened. As you see, Hope, I walk my dog, my daughter does not anymore. As the last person to post said he would "kick" another dog attacking his, while I might agree that is one way to rid, it is not my method. I have learned and grown from this and would appreciate acknowledgement of that. If you can't post something nice don't post at all!!!!!!!!!!