Rottie Changing Temperament?

[marty22877]

So before i go into my question I figure i might as well give some background on Luci. We adopted Luci about 7 months ago, september 2007, from the local spca. She came in as a stray, someone found her wondering the farms around lancaster, pa, so the spca didnt have any background info on her. She did however pass all of the temperament tests and was not aggressive what so ever. The only problem with her was she was jumpy and a little mouthy, but that's to be expected. So we brought her home and she fit right in. From the start though i know she was never in a house, had no idea what the tv was, was barking at the speakers and didnt understand what steps were the first time she saw them. She did however LOVE kids, the first day she was running around playing with our 5 year old and her cousins. She fit right in.

I had owned 2 dogs previously, black lab and american fox hound, while my gf had never owned a dog. So i took up most of the responsibilities. I house trained Luci in under a week, a first for me, and with a little trouble i got her crate trained From the start we enrolled her in a dog obedience class, she needed to be socialized as she was a little timid to new people and this was the first time i had owned a rottweiler. She did fine and picked up quick. She was leash trained in no time, walked right next to me with the help of a prong collar. I brought her to a local "doggie day care" as i was feeling bad leaving her in the crate, well she got denied. She got denied because she was timid and basically got freaked out when they brought her back to where all the dogs were. So the trainers told me some stuff and i started walking her 3-4xs a week for 30-60 minutes at the local park, where there were lots of other people and dogs. Her timidness was going away which was a good thing.

She was doing really good so we decided to start leaving her out for an hour here and an hour there so we could leave her out during the day and at night. This decision was made about 10 days ago. The first couple days she did so good we decided to let her out full time. She was pretty restless at night, sniffing around and just being restless, it would go away after about 30 minutes and we all could sleep. So after 2 days and 2 nights of being out all the time one night she was just being bad, so i decided to lock her out of our room. BAD IDEA. i woke up in the morning and she pee'd and poo'd over the night, she knew what she did was bad as she was sulking around. So right then staying out over night was nixed. The next day she stayed out good. Next night in, the next day out. For some reason i had a bad feeling all day. i come home and what do you know, bedlam she tore apart the large couch cushions, thank god right along the zipper line, and there was fiber fill EVERYWHERE. She also pee'd and poo'd right in the same spot as the other day. Well i freaked out, didnt hit her, yelled, cleaned up, brought her outside, then put her in the kennel as we were going out shopping. We came home, let her out and that was it, no more out of the kennel unless we were home for a while, basically we were starting at square one all over again. This happened on Friday. Well Saturday and sunday she was in the kennel when we werent home, sunday she was out all day, saturday maybe 4 hours. This morning, monday, i do my normal thing, bring her out, she goes pee, doesnt poo as some mornings she doesnt and sunday she was like a poo factory. So i leave for work, leaving her out like i do every morning so my gf and our 5 year old can put her away. It's like our 5 year old and the dog's time together alone. Well i get in my car and not even 2 minutes later my phone rings. It's my gf, the dog has poo'd, i'm really keeping my language clean, right in the same spot not even 2 minutes after i left. My gf was telling the dog no but she kept doing it. I turn around and high tail it home, walk in the door, dog goes running because she knows she did something bad. i yell, clean the dog waste up, finally get a hold of her, rub her nose where it was(even though i have never done this but i was extremely frustrated) put her in the kennel and off to work i go. so now i feel guilty. and want to nip this behavior in the bud before it gets any worse. Since i have house trained her 7 months ago these are the first times she has gone in the house. Only one other time before but that was because i gave her some olive oil in her food and she literally couldn't make it out the door fast enough.

I have also noticed in the past couple of weeks she's getting a little more daring. She has been "taunting" my girlfriend more then usual, jumping up on her when she's on the couch and basically taunting her. i'm guessing this is her testing her? it's never aggressive almost like playing but she doesnt do it to me. i have to step in and she stops right away. i also noticed she was up on the couch the other day, i let her do this, and i went to get her off and she semi snapped at me, i fixed it right off the bat and corrected her, got her off the couch and let her know i am the alpha dog in the house. well last night she did the same to my girlfriend, i stepped in and down she went. this is the first signs of any kind of aggression the dog has had. she is a very happy dog, always wagging her tail, giving kisses the whole nine. so my questions are, what the hell is going wrong? why is she going in the house now? how do i fix it? why is she taunting my girlfriend? and how do i fix it? i appreciate any advice, i love my dog and there isnt a chance in hell i'm giving her up, i just want to fix this behavior.

[tla0126]

I think that you just have to start at square one again. Don't let her have freedom for a while... Straight from the yard to the kennel until she can prove she isn't going to tear anything up, or poop on the ground again. Also, make sure to REALLY clean up the area that she pottied in, she might can still smell it and continue to go there. Good luck, I'm sure others will have suggestions as well.

[AngelBunny]

Are you still in class with Luci? Your GF needs to go to class with Luci, too, since Luci clearly doesn't have the same level of respect for her as she does for you.

Clearly, Luci can't be left uncrated, so crate her when you're not home to watch her.

I'd treat Luci as if she wasn't housetrained.

What are you feeding Luci and are you free feeding her? Feeding and watering on a schedule helps a dog regulate its system, making elimination happen more on a schedule.

[bliss7373]

I agree with the above posts. Start from square one. Dog need to earn freedom slowly - I think you are moving too fast for Luci.

While I understand this is VERY frustrating, please remain patient with Luci. It isn't her fault that she isn't ready for that much freedom. As you already recognized, yelling at her and rubbing her nose in it isn't helping.

Start over with the housetraining. Enroll in obedience classes again, both you and your girlfriend. Get Luci on a feeding/walking schedule that everyone in the house sticks to. Take things slowly with her - she's clearly a timid girl and might need even more patience and time than the regular dog - keep everything very positive and happy, she'll come along much quicker.

It almost sounds like Luci is reacting - to a certain extent- out of stress. She gets worried when you leave or lock her out of a room, doesn't know how to react, and winds up destroying things and making a mess. The first order of business is what you're doing - back to square one on the crate training. Next, I'd try to make leaving and coming home a low-key event. Don't give her a reason to get all worked up over it. I would also make sure that Luci is getting plenty of exercise before you leave for the day!

Good luck!

[marty22877]

thanks for the response everyone. i have been free feeding luci because she does not eat a ton, this is in fact the first dog that doesnt eat all of it's food in one breathe, she kind of picks at it during the day and has stayed pretty lean and muscular. i'm guessing the free feeding has got to go?

[marty22877]

and she gets fed Purina dog food, it's a 55lb bag from costco and her coat is shiny, not a lot of eye gook, and she's pretty muscular

[fireopal]

A couple of things:

It's possible that the food can be part of the issue. Free feeding definitely has to go, it makes it terribly difficult to work on housetraining when you can't predict when she might have to "go". When you feed on a schedule, that part of the housetraining thing gets easier. Also, it is possible that she is sensitive to grains or to something in the food. It is by no means universal, but some dogs can have real serious issues with the artificial ingredients in some dog foods. You may want to ask your vet about it and possibly try a new food if feeding on a schedule doesn't resolve the inconsistencies in her pooping.

It's also possible that she is unsure of how to communicate to you that she needs to go outside. In my own experience, I tried many methods (and cleaned a lot of poop! ) until finally being given the advice to teach my dogs how to ring a bell on a string when they needed out.

Keep being patient with Luci and be a good leader for her. She has probably had quite a lot of inconsistency in her life up till now and she really needs her new people to help her understand what to do.

[marty22877]

whats the normal age everyone starts weening them out of the crate?

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by marty22877

i have been free feeding luci...she kind of picks at it during the day and has stayed pretty lean and muscular. i'm guessing the free feeding has got to go?

Yes, you've got to end the free feeding--and while you're at it, please read thru the postings in Nutrition and Grooming. Purina is inferior food. There are so many, much better brands of kibble readily available that there's no reason to feed a miserable food.

If you free feed you can experience what you're seeing with Luci--elimination at various times of the day with no rhyme or reason that you can see. Feed her breakfast and dinner at more or less the same times each day. Put down her bowl for 10 or 15 minutes. As soon as that time is up, whether she's eaten nothing or had a few mouthfuls, remove the bowl. Luci gets nothing til her next meal.

Free feeding encourage some dogs to pick at their food--you may find that once Luci understands she won't have access to food all the time, she'll be happy to join the clean plate club.

While you're teaching Luci free feeding has ended, she may try mooching treats between meals. Don't give in to her. She eats her breakfast and her dinner and that's it.

Take her out for regular walks to help her system. The idea is to help Luci get on regular system that works for you.

I feed and walk my dogs the same time on the weekends, too.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by marty22877

whats the normal age everyone starts weening them out of the crate?

Every dog is an individual. This depends entirely on the dog.

[tla0126]

Beau was a 1 1/2 when I allowed him to sleep outside of his crate in my room. He was 2 before I let him outside of the crate completely. Not sure about anyone else. Like Angelbunny said, it depends entirely on the dog.

[marty22877]

gotcha, thanks everybody

[harleychik66]

Originally Posted by marty22877

whats the normal age everyone starts weening them out of the crate?

It really depends on the dog. Some dogs are 10 months, some are for their whole lives, and the majority, at least for me, fall right around 1 1/2 year old mark.

At this point I wouldn't worry about weaning your girl. Start back at square one. Leash her to you when you're home and crate her when you're not there, can't watch her, or at bedtime. Personally I'd wait at least several months before I would give her any freedom.

Get into some training classes, both you and your GF and start implementing NILIF. You can do a search here to find out about how it works.

[bliss7373]

"whats the normal age everyone starts weening them out of the crate?"

As others said, it's very dependant on the dog. I adopted my girl when she was 2. By age 3, I considered her very trustworthy.

But I know of a particularly ornery 4 year old male who is still confined when his owners aren't home. This boy has been in classes at my training club for years - he has a CD and some agility titles, and his owners are experienced, firm, and fair. He's a great dog in every way, he just can't be trusted free in the house. His owners have attached an x-pen to his crate in the dining room.

[Maxxx]

What I'd also suggest it to let your gf discipline Luci instead of you stepping in. If Luci is jumping on your gf, it's up to your gf to tell her no. If you keep jumping in to correct, Luci will never learn to respect your gf the same way as she does you.