Not a great trip to the vet for Toggle.

[Ceej]

I took Toggle for her get aquainted visit with the vet today. She was very excited to see all the dogs and cats! She didn't listen very well despite my best efforts. *sigh* Getting her on the scale was a trip too. I have some work to do with her socialization/leash manners for sure!!!

Anyway, once in the exam room she was great. Let the vet examine her, listen to her heart and lungs. Toggle did give a small growl when the vet was palpating her abdomen then was wiggle butt immediately when the vet stopped mashing on her tummy.

They took her into the back room to draw her blood for heart worm. I don't know why they didn't stay in the room with me but anyway...The vet tech came back into the exam room and proceeded to tell me that I had a very aggressive dog and I needed to get her into training right away before she bites my children.

I was puzzled and asked what happened in the back room and she stated that Toggle didn't react well to being held down for the blood draw. I then asked if she nipped or bit her and she said no but that he had growled at her. She said that meant that Toggle was very aggressive and in danger of biting humans and without immediate intervention, she would bite a human and she hoped it wasn't one my children. "Here's your bill" and she was outta there.

I was floored by the whole experience. I have been going to this vet for a while with Ginger our fomer Rott (RIP). I like the vet but this vet tech was something else.

While I agree Toggle needs to be in training, I do not believe her to be a threat to my children or anyone else. I have no problem with her wearing a muzzle for blood draws etc if need be to protect the staff. I would much rather have a dog warn with a growl than to just bite without warning...


I feel the vet tech overeacted about the growling. I'll be the first to admit Toggle is quite dominant but I don't buy the agressive thing. Am I in denial??? Am I missing the whole picture or what? Please advise...

[hokisteph5]

I wonder why the vet tech felt the need to deliver the info and not the vet.

There are several dogs discussed on here that don't do well at the vet's office. My male is one of them. I ask that he be muzzled for his safety and the safety of everyone else. Last time at the vet he let out one low growl, but I was able to then distract him by dropping pieces of string cheese on the floor. The first drop was accidental, but the vet was surprised.

I had even mentioned to her that I felt bad I didn't take Samson to the vet more when he was younger. She reassured me that it may not have helped. She said she knew a male rottie from the time he was a puppy. He loved her at 6 months old, but when he came in as an adult he almost took her arm off. She also had a dog of her own that didn't do well at the vet's office.

[tla0126]

I don't think your in denial... I don't know why they didn't muzzle her if they thought she was going to do something to them while STICKING HER WITH A NEEDLE... The vet tech seems like she is overreacting... Training, obviously, you said that yourself, but heck, I'd growl at someone poking me with a needle too...

[abbiesdogs]

I don't think your in denial either, when lottie has blood drawn or any other procedure for that matter (even x-rays) we are always with her and she is muzzled, because she growls. She hates going to the vets but she is not an aggressive dog.
Abbie

[moz205]

Rommel hated the vet. We had to muzzle him as soon as we got there. The vet and I worked it out where I would stand over Rommel while he was sitting, one leg on either side and hold him tight by his collar. The vet would then examine him on the floor. It worked like a charm and we got really good at it after a while. So far Buddy hasn't had a problem but neither did Rommel until he hit around 2.

[sweetlee]

First off, Toggle is just settling in after an exhausting trip. She is just now bonding with you,and then a stranger takes her off and pokes her with a needle. I am not at all surprised that she growled.
It does not make her dangerous.
I would let her settle into her new home for a week or two and then get her into classes with you.
In the future I guess I would just let them muzzle her, and I would also insist that they not take her out of the room, so you can see with your own eyes what is going on.
I am sure she is a good girl, she just got grumpy about being held down. Dominant dogs don't like to be confined. And dominant does not mean aggressive.

Sharon

[QuietDaze]

I don't think you're in denial and I agree that if the tech thought your dog was that dangerous, they should have muzzled her. Do vet techs get any courses in behavior?? If not, they should. I have the absolute sweetest female and she will let pretty much anyone manipulate her but she does not like being held down. Not at all. Our previous vet got right down on her level and took her blood with no problem. New vet didn't listen when we said she didn't need to be held down. Didn't muzzle her because she was so friendly. Got a call saying she flipped out when they were holding her down....

My point? She's not an aggressive dog at all, but she will 'let you know' she doesn't like something just as your girl did. I don't know that the needles even hurt - probably just stings a little but the holding down part is what I think offends them.

Tiffani

[debbiej]

I agree. she is a dog that still thinks she is on her own. as she becomes more secure in her new life, she probably will be less 'defensive', if you could call it that. that vet tech was overreacting, IMO.

[observer]

Originally Posted by sweetlee

First off, Toggle is just settling in after an exhausting trip. She is just now bonding with you,and then a stranger takes her off and pokes her with a needle. I am not at all surprised that she growled.
It does not make her dangerous.
I would let her settle into her new home for a week or two and then get her into classes with you.
In the future I guess I would just let them muzzle her, and I would also insist that they not take her out of the room, so you can see with your own eyes what is going on.
I am sure she is a good girl, she just got grumpy about being held down. Dominant dogs don't like to be confined. And dominant does not mean aggressive.

Sharon

I absolutely agree with this. Everything is new to her right now. I would insist in the future that the blood draw be done in your presence then you can evaluate Toggle's reaction, if any, yourself. Putting a soft muzzle on her the next time would be perfectly fine, if it makes them more comfortable. If this attitude by a tech persists, (I agree that it's the vet who should have come and talked to you) then find a new vet.

She may never love going to the vet like some others do (mine included), but I'll bet she will get better!

[EmmysMom]

My vet never takes Emmy out of my sight without my agreeing to it. He does everything right in the exam room except for x-rays and I agreed to that, of course. I would think about a different vet, don't care for the tech's attitude and don't like that they take her away from you.

You and she will be fine eventually, w/love, training and time!

[tla0126]

Another thing I thought of, this vet tech seems to have a very negative attitude. Maybe your Toggle sensed this and it made her nervous??

[SABELLESMOM]

Well there could be a couple of things wrong with this vet office, period. From what you said, the waiting room had more than 1 or 2 animals in it? It shouldn't. The "vet" can be a stressful visit. They don't need to sit in a full waiting room. Appointments scheduled at least 15 minutes apart would benefit both dogs and possibly PMS-grumpy technicians.

I've always been right with my girls (Rottie's) when their blood is drawn, but they trust me. I may hold their head toward me and talk softly to them. They are calm and OK.

My rescued, and elderly, Cocker Spaniel would be a biter. He's always been that way. But, he happily goes off to the dreaded back room. I'm sure he's muzzled. I can hear the technician talking to him softly. No growls, no gripes, and no complaints. As it should be.

I do not think you are "in denial." I would tell the actual vet on your next visit, or thru a phone call, that you were a bit taken aback and disappionted to have any technician over react that way.

Yes, follow thru and get Toggle into training. It's the responsible thing with any dog, grumbly or not.

[lgslgs]

Different handling can get very different results.

My first rescue was a 2 year old boy that I named Guinness., I was able to call the vet's office that his first owner took him to. They told me he was dangerous, had to be held down, should never be in a vet's office without a muzzle, and all sorts of horror stories. He apparently had such a bad reputation that even the receptionist was quick to label him a dangerous dog.

I made an appointment with my own vet, disclosing what I had been told, and told them we'd start with socialization only visits until we had him trained to be cooperative. I really expected we'd need half a dozen visits until we were ready for an actual full vet exam.

Well, on visit one he was good natured and cooperative. He also "aggressively" tried to climb on every bench, scale and exam table like a total goon. As we got to know him better, we realized that Guinness thought his job was to get on an exam table, and he'd try to climb onto every similar surface until the exam was over. After the exam he never tried to jump on things. So this "aggressive" and "disobedient" behavior was just eagerness to please and not knowing what was expected of him.

He was also clueless about his mouth and would wave his head around, open mouthed, when excited. We had to specifically teach him how to behave in a relaxed manner and be careful with his mouth. Again - that was him not understanding, not him being dangerous. Certainly not biting, though with clueless open mouthed head waving it was very easy to get bumped by a high speed tooth or mouth.

Throughout his life I handled him at the vet, taking the head position. His vet experience before I got him was just so incredibly bad that I was never going to take a chance that he'd be in a situation where he'd feel threatened and bite. If there was going to be a bite, he'd have to bite me - and in his entire life he never did.

That includes the time the vet cauterized a skin tag off his elbow with local anesthesia only, needle biopsies while conscious, and vet removal of a stuck puzzle ball that wedged his mouth open and pinched his gums and tongue. All of our vets would shake their heads in disbelief when told that he had previously been labeled a dangerous dog by first owner and first veterinarian's office.

Toggle may very well need some special training to learn to enjoy the vet's office and accept handling. A good vet and good office staff should be helpful in accommodating socialization visits, scale practice visits, nail clipping and temp taking practice and the like for minimal cost - if any., If I had a vet that wasn't willing to support that level of socialization training I'd find another vet.

You don't want to keep Toggle a victim of her past by promoting an "oh, the poor dear" attitude - but she may very well needs some time and focused practice in learning that her new world is full of people she can trust and rely on.

After Guinness's first vet experience during his first two years, I'm not sure he would ever have done very well being handled away from me, out of site, without first having a few visits to make friends with the vet and the assistants. At age 7, we moved and he had a new vet - and even though he was easy for me to handle and properly cooperative with her, it took about 4 or 5 visits with her before he'd accept a dog treat from her. Eventually he progressed from aloof cooperation to being Dr. Cindy's number one fan and best pal in the world. :) But it took time and relationship building.


I wouldn't be surprised if Toggle has a ghost or two in her past that will drop in from time to time and remind her of times past when she may have felt threatened, unsupported, or afraid. Stuff like that fades and rescues build the ability to trust quite easily.


There is one other thing you might want to consider if there is any evidence that she may have been in an abusive situation in the past. Guinness was definitely mistreated before we got him - and showed very clear signs of having been hit. Because we knew he had been harshly treated in the past we felt that we needed to make sure that he never again hear his old name (Rommel). There was just too much indication that his former name had been used in situations where he had every right to feel frightened and threatened.

I don't recall what you've written about Toggle's past and whether you know what sort of life she had prior to rescue. If there was possible hitting or other harsh treatment, you may want to assess whether strangers using her name triggers any fear or uncertainty in her. If it does and you want to keep he lovely name, I'd add name usage to the positive socialization training as well so that she learns that when strangers say "Toggle", it's a good thing.


Lynda

[dawnadkins]

I had this same situation happen with me, only it was the actual vet that was the problem. It seemed to me like she was uneasy as she entered the room. The vet was listening to his lungs, and was leaning down over him as a tech was holding his head and was in his face. I later found out that the vet had been bit by a Rottie once. I think my bot must have picked up on that. I make it a point not to see that particular vet anymore, as there are several that work in the same office. Like you, I questioned if she was right about the aggression. After talking with several people, I felt more at ease in that it was a bad situation. I agree that if the staff would feel safer with a muzzle, so be it.

Dawn

[CanineCoach]

Seems to me that this tech did an awful lot of assessment in a very short time and under a pretty stressful set of circumstances. I think I would be talking to my vet about all this "evaluation" by the tech.