Not a great trip to the vet for Toggle.

[Terri Lambert]

I have to say I am a vet tech and a very good one at that (as where I work I am the one asked to go in with rotties and any large or aggressive dog/cat) We often do take pets in the back for blood draws also but only with owners permission as some do better without owner. Also I have to agree alot of the animals behavior has to deal with the handling some dogs/cats less is best, I hold alot of dogs by their collar owner and do not give them the bear hug which alot of dogs HATE. Also if you find a vet tech in the vet hospital that you go to there is no reason you can't request her/him just as you would request a specific doctor same thing. I have an Akita that comes in for nail trims and the owner only requestes me as the dog can be a little grumpy at times especially if her lyme is acting up. So I DO NOT THINK YOU HAVE AN AGGRESSIVE DOG.

[kala]

From what you wrote I don't think she is aggressive. You said she grumbled at the vet as he did invasive handling of her abdomen, but when he stopped she reconnected with him and was good. That's what you want, maybe not the growling at first but the reconnection. She didn't like the handling in the "back". Maybe they hugged her neck when they were doing the blood draw, I see lots of dogs not wanting to be held down like that. Next time ask they don't take her away from you when they do anything to her. You just got her, she is still probably unsettled from all the changes in her life.

I had a Rottie girl that was aggressive at the vets. She didn't want anything to do with the techs or the vet. I always requested a muzzle or took my own for her. Away from the vet's office she was a dream girl. She loved to meet new people and was of a stable temperament. Just learn to know your dog.

You admit you need to work with her, but you have time to get her into training. She will learn. As others here say a lot of dogs are not comfortable at the vet's office. I wouldn't worry about this one incident or tech at the moment. Just get to know her and start working on her training. Sounds like you are on the right track.
sue

[Ceej]

Thanks everyone for your reassurances!!! I really felt that the tech was out of line and I think I will:

1) Work with Toggle's leash manners and "leave it". (After today's vet visit she MUST think her new name is "Leave it".) LOL

2) Schedule practice visits to weigh and socialize at the vet's office when she is more relieable on lead.

3) Ask, in the future, for ALL blood draws to be done in the room. (I feel I was at a disadvantage because I had not witnessed the growl and only heard about it second hand.)

4) Love this DARLING bossy bitch for the GREAT dog she is!!! :-)


In addition to the vet's visit, Toggle and I went to see the trainer for our first private session. At the first sight of another dog, being the domnant bitch she is, Toggle lifted her leg and marked right in the middle of her indoor training area! *sigh* I gave her a correction and a firm "No" and she stopped at a few drops but still, I was mortified. The trainer was not phased at all and kept right on going!

I got some great tips for working with Toggle's manners and so we will be doing our homework this week and return next week for more. Group sessions begin at the end of May.

Again, thanks for the support!!! I'll keep you all posted....

[Gerts]

Originally Posted by hokisteph5

I had even mentioned to her that I felt bad I didn't take Samson to the vet more when he was younger. She reassured me that it may not have helped. She said she knew a male rottie from the time he was a puppy. He loved her at 6 months old, but when he came in as an adult he almost took her arm off. She also had a dog of her own that didn't do well at the vet's office.

I was/am in the same situation...although I did take my pup to the vets' office often for visiting and for more experience...and every time I was there for shots and several specific check-ups---(several visits about his offset bite and if it would cause lasting problems)--all through puppyhood---the entire vets' office would say that they wished every rottie they saw was this well tempered and as docile as my pup was...even with fecal exams, drawing blood etc...the vet and the assistants ranted and raved about his disposition, telling me he was an exemplary patient!...

That was until he was around 15-18 mo. old...then quite literally---all hell broke loose! On one visit, the vets' office told me he would do better if they took him in the back to give him a shot ('cause he had started a "deep throated" grumble when they started poking on him)...they said he was protecting me and wouldn't be so aggressive w/o me! HA! I swore to them that I knew him better than that and he was protecting himself! It was the worst visit in his history for his actions! They did end up bringing him back to me and said that I was right--he was even worse w/o me! He threw a demonic fit!! I was later approached by the vet tech and the vet himself telling me I have a ferocious dog on hand and should guard myself against his future bite attacks that are sure to happen, and to be sure to not have him around any children due to his unpredictability--for he had a very unstable temperament!

Yes, the dog that was a "gem" as a pup is now the devil himself at the vets office! He is not even able to be muzzled anymore...for he has figured out the procedure (after the second time) and has to be managed in a very specific manner...(too in depth to get into!) Anyways...we went from "an exemplary patient" to a dog that was not only going to "turn on me" specifically but could also end up "mauling children"...all of this change happened from the time of one vet visit to the next...I am with a different vet now, since he was about 2 y.o. (he's 7 and 1/2 now)--due to the comments I was getting at the office straight from the vet techs' themselves...

So, It could be a number of factors that many have listed. And it could get better with time...or not, but don't let a few comments get you disappointed, some pets just know those "white coats are out to get them"!

Just "learn" your dog, have exemplary manners and obedience in place all the time to show the public how spectacular this breed is, and let those comments go in one ear and out the other! And yes...don't forget to love her for ALL she is!

[Tihanna]

I WORK AT A VET CLINIC - HERE IS MY STANCE.

The fact that the tech considered this dog "aggressive" simply because he growled is barbaric if anything. That is rediculous. The fact that ANY DOG nervous, with strangers, AT THE VET - WHERE HE REMEMBERS/ASSOCIATES PAIN, strange smells,etc has the potential to growl,snap, etc.

I am not a tech, however can say that the techs at our clinic are NEVER quick to deem a dog "aggressive" however, we do give them a "yellow sticker" that just cautions those WORKING in the clinic that they may not be FRIENDLY in clinic, things are different beyond our doors.

A dog isn't ever even deemed "aggressive" if it bites someone due to fear/pain - the clinic is a scary, nerve-wrecking place. We do however consider dogs aggressive if they are aggressive to other patient dogs in clinic, or are defensivfe, showing COMMON SIGNS OF AGGRESSION. There is a fine line between aggression and fear. We must understand that.

In all honestly, all I can say is the tech is an idiot and I would have a decision w/ the doc and let him/her know what she said and perhaps the vet will have a chat w/ her and let her know there is an appropriate way to approach the situation.

With that being said, I would take caution though, it seems that the dogs in clinic that don't do well with restraint, especially a dominant breed such as the rotti, typically are dominant dogs in general.

Hopefully the next visit goes well... though I'm sure they will unfortunately muzzle him next time, I would request to go back, you have that right.

[Tihanna]

Might I also add that I would suggest bringing Toggle to the vet clinic for "happy" visits - simple weigh-in's. Seems our clients at work who do this with their "uneasy" dogs, they have better visits for vaccines, check-ups, etc.

Just a suggestion, regardless if he is "uneasy" or not, it wouldn't do him any harm that is for sure! My dog comes to work with me some days and a tech at work has a rotti and she'll bring hers the same daays and they will play play play, so Tihanna associates fun times w/ the vet now!!

[ZoesMomma]

My Megan liked everyone, everywhere, except for the vet's office. Try as we might, we were never able to convince her that it was a good place. She would spit the treats they gave her right back at them. I am the "tech" for all my dogs and it made no difference. She always had to be muzzled for any procedure besides shots. What the heck, when I was a small child, they probably wished they had a muzzle for me at the doctors. Never in her too short life did she even growl at any person or animal anywhere else. She even schmoozed with the clients while waiting to see the vet. I would not worry about what one vet tech said about Toggle unless she also had a degree in dog psychology. Otherwise it's just an unsolicited opinion, not a diagnosis. I'd just keep trying with "happy" visits where all that happens is that she gets yummies and invest in a soft muzzle to take with you in case it's needed. I've never thought it was a good idea to use a muzzle that has been used on other dogs, particularly at the vet's office.

[fostermom]

We had taken my male to Cornell U. and the intern was poking and prodding...Reno stood quietly through all of it until the intern started yanking on his leg...I saw Reno's lip curl, figured he'd had enough, and told the student to stop...in the six subsequent years we've had him, Reno has been nothing but an angel, including the vets.
Two of my fosters have had issues with vets' offices. My little gsd/boxer, who was the SWEETEST dog and went to a novice home where they adore her, hated the vets. I had to pick her up to get her on the table and control her head as she would snap at them at every opportunity.
My 10 mo. old rotti foster would literally "freak out" (and I mean big time...struggling, jumping about...totally out of control!!!) at the vets once the actual exam started. He'd be all wiggle butt and kisses in the waiting room, even when the vet initially greeted him...he was so social with the vet that they looked shocked when I told them to muzzle him...course once the exam started, they understood why. He adopted to a family who is now doing advanced obedience with him...I get frequent emails from them telling me how wonderful he is.
Especially with a rescue dog, we don't know their prior experiences...and I'm sure if "bad" things happen every time a dog sees the vet, he understandably might decide he needs to express his displeasure.
I'm sure these vet tech constantly have to deal with grumbly dogs...can't understand why she reacted as she did.

[CanineCoach]

I like the idea of having your own "party hat" for your dog instead of using a soft muzzle from the vet. You could even de-sensitize to the muzzle, working on it periodically at home.

[keller27]

They label Khori as aggressive at the vet too. There is a big difference in aggressive and not liking to be there. If he was aggressive he would try to take them out. Evidently my vet was with another rottie and it tried to bite her in the face. My vet ALWAYS has me with him when they examine him, take blood, or do vaccinations. He has gotten better. He does wear a muzzle. We call it his party hat. If it means putting them at ease, then I don't mind him wearing it. I would hate for him to growl and they back off from him. One of the techs as able to come up from behind and take his pulse and he didn't protest at all. I was very happy as he usually will growl normally. I think what might have helped was my shih tzu and my husband was in the room with me too.

[blisscodisco]

I know most dogs are better with out their owners but all my dogs never leave my sight at the vets unless it is surgery. Otherwise I am at the head end. Keeps everyone happy. My dogs go to the vet for "cookie visits" a lot when they are puppies and even now that they are seniors. Blood draws seem to be their least favorite. Any procedure with their legs being held seems to not be a favorite. Again I rather be there to judge their reactions. My one dog is a big talker (never agressive just has a lot to say) and I asked for a caution to be put on his chart so I don't get the vet techs that are nervous around big grumblers. I always get the ones who like big dogs and stuff him with cookies. Makes for a good trip all around. So sometimes a caution can work to you and your dogs advantage.
bliss

[marty22877]

same thing happened to me and luci. in fact, we didnt even get through the initial exam at the first vet. they told us to give the dog back because it is an aggressive dog and should not be around children. ended up finding another vet and even though it was a tough time the vet worked through it and made it a point to help her and get to know her. it's still not the easiest visits, and we have to muzzle her. BUT the vet tries and shows she cares, which makes a world of a difference.

[Moosemom]

Re: not a great trip to the vet for Toggle
I am certainly not a professional for dog medicine but I think your vet tech was scared of her...and Toggle sensed that. I am truly blessed to have a vet and a bunch of techs who own and love rotties. My girl loves to go even when they stick things in her. She loves their attention. We had a grueling exam at the vet school one time. The orthopedic surgeon turned her and her dysplasic hips everyway imaginable...then she got up off the floor and wiped his face clean with kisses. I really think the fear factor played into this and your smart dog picked up on it. I question the vet tech more than the dog!

[observer]

Originally Posted by Tihanna

Might I also add that I would suggest bringing Toggle to the vet clinic for "happy" visits - simple weigh-in's. Seems our clients at work who do this with their "uneasy" dogs, they have better visits for vaccines, check-ups, etc.

I absolutely agree with this. I have one of those rare dogs that enjoys the vet's office, but part of how we've maintained that is lots of what I call "Jenny Craig" visits.... Since Missy's weight is always an issue (altho we may have found the secret to fixing that!) we've needed lots of those. I bring her in when I'm just picking up pills, too. She comes, gets pets and tummy rubs, (for which she goes behind the counter, usually) gets weighed, and goes home!

[MonicaBH]

Clyde has pretty much been raised in a vet clinic, since I am an overnight emergency clinic technician; however, that doesn't mean he likes having stuff done to him any better. I can draw his blood, do SQ fluids and give him vaccines/injections, and he *tolerates* it... but he is not fond of it. So far, he's not had to be muzzled (except for nail trims; he HATES those), and it's only me that's ever done anything to him. Throughout his life, though, I've taken his temperature randomly just so he is used to it. I handle his tail nub, pinch his skin, pull at his ears, etc so he has exposure to those things. I hold his legs and palpate his veins. I'm weird like that.

If I ever am in the situation where I am not able to do things on my own to him, I wouldn't hesitate suggesting a muzzle, though. I don't know how he'd act if he were sick or in pain w/out me around.