He came from a Puppy Mill

[keller27]

The other day I found out about where Khori actually came from: A puppy mill. Now I understand more where he is coming from with his behavior more than ever before. He came out of Thunder Valley Kennels. He will be 4 years old this summer and we have dealt with food aggression, leaky heart valve, lots of ear infections, temperament problems. I feel like I was taken advantage of and all of my hopes of having a conformation dog was shattered. I don't know if I can trust another breeder right now. I have gone through so much with him in the time I have had him. The food aggression is so much better, and he doesn't growl and I can be around him now. He will never be cured of it, but I can manage him if he cycles back. His trial and error system is very slow and I am working on clicker to see if I can work him on that. I was playing ball with him, and he backed up and touched my husband and he growled at him. So that is an issue we need to deal with and I think that I can do that with a clicker also. Sometimes I feel really exhausted helping him through all of these little things. Next weekend I will be going to the Brenda Aloff and Steve White seminar, so hopefully I will be learning new things to help him. Khori has done alot of improvements in the past year. He is a very complicated boy. He is who he is and I will help him get through it. I never thought I would be dealing with a rottie, being my first one and having such high hopes of doing alot of fun things with him. I call him my learning dog and we will learn together.

[crazyonehuh]

Unfortunate...but it happens! Is he neutered? Sometime a dog can lose some agression after they are neutered. Maybe not at 4 yrs old though. And why not trust another breeder. It puts you at fault for not knowing where your dog was coming from. Did you not think about getting your dog from a respectable and qualified breeder? Did you rescue him? I am not trying to sound bitter, but I am. We owe our breed everything we can to ensure their future. Just a suggestion, if your not already, get into obiediance classes.

[keller27]

Originally Posted by crazyonehuh

Unfortunate...but it happens! Is he neutered? Sometime a dog can lose some agression after they are neutered. Maybe not at 4 yrs old though. And why not trust another breeder. It puts you at fault for not knowing where your dog was coming from. Did you not think about getting your dog from a respectable and qualified breeder? Did you rescue him? I am not trying to sound bitter, but I am. We owe our breed everything we can to ensure their future. Just a suggestion, if your not already, get into obiediance classes.

He was neutered at 16 months old. I really thought I did find a good breeder. I got suckered into the website and all of the e-mails from her and answering all of my questions. She showed her dogs. I will never buy over the internet again, where I don't see them in person. That was my big mistake. I paid $1500 for him. I am a trainer, and he spent the first 2 years straight, everyday at Petsmart in my classes, being socialized like crazy. Last June he spent 10 weeks with a trainer to get him over his food aggression, and thank God she was able to get him over that. I go to aggression seminars, and one of them he went with me. Of course he never reacted even one time and earned his CGC there. I am doing everything I can for him. If you look at this breeders website I thought I found a good one. If anyone else had gotten him, he would have been put down way long ago. I will not give up on him.

[crazyonehuh]

Its good to know that giving up is not an option. I guess that money doesn't gaurantee quality when it comes to dogs. So many people in my area have never concidered paying that much for a dog. So many BYB's around here. Sometimes with age comes maturity...but in your case, I am at a loss. I wish you the best with your guy. Love and patience goes a long way.

[harleychik66]

I can understand the frustration you are feeling. I went through it with my first rott almost 20 years ago. You did what you felt was the right thing at the time. Many of us on here got our first rottie from less than stellar conditions and are dealing/ have dealt with the issues and problems that come along.

It sounds as if you are doing all the right things with Khori. He is a very lucky boy to have you working with him on all his issues. Even though it's so frustating I'm glad to hear your not giving up.

I can understand where your trust of breeders is nonexistant at this time. Just remember not to lump all breeders into the same category. If/when you decide another rottie is for you, I would recommend going to shows and talking to the breeders there. You will get a better feel for what a true COE breeder does and doesn't do.

Also don't rule out a reputable rescue. They screen the dogs they foster and are able to tell you any issues the dog may have.

Keep in mind that after all the issues you have been through with Khori, if you decide to get another it will seem like a walk in the park.

Good luck and keep up with the good work with your boy. It sounds as if he has made much progress with you and all your hard work. You should be proud of all the accomplishments you have made with him.

[keller27]

At the time I was a PetSmart trainer, so when Stephanie told me she was a trainer also, I felt that I was in good hands. Normally a person would ask at what age did you separate the dam from the puppies, I was stupid enough not to ask, because I figure that they would be with the dam until 8 weeks. After I got him I called them and ask that question and it is a practice she said to take them away from the dam at 4 WEEKS of age. In an e-mail she said that they know what they are doing and have been dealing with rottweilers for a very long time and I can't go by what the books say. She said that he was food aggressive at 4 weeks too. He came with an umbilical hernia. He also has the 12 stray white hairs on his chest. Nothing was said before I got him about anything. I told them that I wanted a demo dog for my training classes. I wanted one that could help me with issue dogs. I guess I wasn't expecting that he would be an issue dog himself.

With my shih tzu she can be around people all day long, strangers or what not. With Khori he has only a 2 hour limit. He found that if he growled, people would leave him alone, and that worked for him. It use to be only an hour limit.

I am very cautious with him around people. He loves people, but only within that 2 hour window. Then he has had enough. He likes children also, but I take no chances and keep his soft sided basket muzzle with him. He will let me know if he wants to say hi. I ask him if he wants to say hello. If he doesn't he will lower his head and look away from them. So I tell I just tell the people that he has had alot of activity and not to come up to him. They are find with that.

Khori is a beautiful boy. He weighs around 145 lbs. Thunder (sire) weighed 110 lbs. and Elektra (dam) was 90 lbs. I didn't expect him to get this big.

After changing his food, he has gone along time without having an ear infection.

[sweetlee]

At 145 your dog is probably overweight. I know his personality is to be grouchy, but have you had him in for a vet check lately? He may have underactive thyroid, which certainly can contribute to grumpy dogs. I would definately get this ruled out. Has he always been overweight, or has this come on recently?
It sounds like other than that you have done what you can, and I applaud you for realizing he isn't trustworthy around people, especially kids.
Keep working with him, keep loving him, and keep him in training.
You can teach old dogs new tricks.
I am so sorry that you had this happen to you. My boy is no doubt from a puppy mill also, but I am lucky from what I have read on here. His temperament is wonderful, especially around kids, he is a big love. The only problems I have had with Dodge healthwise is that his anal glands need to be emptied by the vet quite often.
You are doing right by your dog. If there is another in the future, check breeders very carefully, but don't discount rescuing, it's the best thing I have ever done.
Bless you for your patience.

Sharon

[keller27]

Originally Posted by sweetlee

At 145 your dog is probably overweight. I know his personality is to be grouchy, but have you had him in for a vet check lately? He may have underactive thyroid, which certainly can contribute to grumpy dogs. I would definately get this ruled out. Has he always been overweight, or has this come on recently?
It sounds like other than that you have done what you can, and I applaud you for realizing he isn't trustworthy around people, especially kids.
Keep working with him, keep loving him, and keep him in training.
You can teach old dogs new tricks.
I am so sorry that you had this happen to you. My boy is no doubt from a puppy mill also, but I am lucky from what I have read on here. His temperament is wonderful, especially around kids, he is a big love. The only problems I have had with Dodge healthwise is that his anal glands need to be emptied by the vet quite often.
You are doing right by your dog. If there is another in the future, check breeders very carefully, but don't discount rescuing, it's the best thing I have ever done.
Bless you for your patience.

Sharon

The first thing that I did was check the thyroid, and have checked it a couple of time to make sure it was normal. It was. Also had his blood sugar check, before and after he ate. He tends to get grumpy when he wasn't getting enough food. Not so much at feeding time, but having something more often in the day. His blood sugar went weird after he ate.

His highest weight was 150 lbs. The last weight was at 145 lbs. But I think he is under that now. Right now he looks good. He's always been a big boy even as a puppy. They said that he was the largest in the litter. The vet said to have him stay around 140 lbs. So I will feed him in the morning, and then in the afternoon, I will use his food when we are working on the clicker, then I feed him in the evening, and anytime he goes into his kennel, he gets a small hand full of food. He started to put on the weight when he was with his trainer and she was feeding him on when and how much to feed him. We were feeding him yet late at night too. He woke up in much better mood in the morning.

The rescuing is what concerns me if I get another rottie. Because I would be afraid again to getting one with temperament problems. I tease people and say that after this, I am going to get a Chihuahua. :) But my neighbors have two of the meanest little chihuahua on the face of the earth!

Thanks for everyones support. I really need to hear it right now.

[Zumie05]

You know I think I pretty much made up my mind that my next rottweiler (if I decide to get another one) will be an adult from a shelter.

An adult dog is wonderful in so many ways - you are past the puppy and teenage phase!!! And the dog's personality is set. So when you look at different rescue dogs you can decide on the one who has the temperament and personality that suits you the best. Major temperament and health problems will already have been discovered in those dogs too.

Puppies are great because you get to raise them from the start and mold them into the dog that you have always wanted (that's why I wanted a puppy so badly), but sometimes a dog in a few aspects is just going to be a certain way. I don't think I ever want to have a puppy again :p

Don't be afraid about rescuing another rottie!

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by Zumie05

...Don't be afraid about rescuing another rottie!

There's absolutely no reason to be fearful about adopting an adult Rottie from a responsible, bona fide rescue group. Good groups temperament test their dogs and don't take aggressive dogs or biting dogs.

All rescue groups aren't created equal, so you have to do your homework, but working with a rescue group that's on the up and up is definitely a good way to acquire a Rottie.

[harleychik66]

I would second Zumie and Angelbunny. My first rott was from a BYB. All other dogs I have had, have either come from rescue or the shelter. I have had far fewer problems with them than I did with the pup from the BYB. Hubby and I will always rescue. We have been very blessed with the dogs we have gotten and I for one would much rather start with a dog already out of the puppy stages.

[keller27]

I have had quite a few rescues, but went for a breeder, because I wanted to show again. It will be quite some time before I get another. I have my shih tzu too who is 10 years old. Khori would probably have issues with another dog in the house. His trainer said that he gets intimidated by them, so we still have issues that we need to work on first.

Today, in our 3rd session with the clicker he actually targeted a mouse pad on the floor when I told him to touch at a little distance. That is excellent on his part for sure. Now I will move it to other locations.

[maya's dad]

The real problem here is that the issue of your initial posting is being ignored. The fact that Thunder Valley has a really wonderful web site, and through their own marketing "genius" have been able to dupe so many people is the issue. I too did all my research, dog shows, word of mouth, etc etc, the name kept coming up as
"reputable." They claimed to be a "code of ethics" breeder, and their success in the show ring was notable. Upon calling them they sure talked the talk.

Now there is a web site denouncing the owners for every possible crime in the book. Pse see Thunder Valley Rottweilers Customer Club — Featured Stories How can the innocent public be alerted to people like this. Everything was done as has been recommended by the Rottweiler Forum. Yet they slipped through the cracks . Why?

Luckily for me, a Thunder Valley male was sent to stud to an "outside" bitch, so we have a wonderful little girl. Is she a show dog, no. However after reading the aforementioned site, who cares. What is annoying though is when the " experts" admonish the people starting out, they just don't address the real issue. There are crooks out there. How can they be stopped?

[keller27]

Originally Posted by maya's dad

The real problem here is that the issue of your initial posting is being ignored. The fact that Thunder Valley has a really wonderful web site, and through their own marketing "genius" have been able to dupe so many people is the issue. I too did all my research, dog shows, word of mouth, etc etc, the name kept coming up as
"reputable." They claimed to be a "code of ethics" breeder, and their success in the show ring was notable. Upon calling them they sure talked the talk.

Now there is a web site denouncing the owners for every possible crime in the book. Pse see Thunder Valley Rottweilers Customer Club — Featured Stories How can the innocent public be alerted to people like this. Everything was done as has been recommended by the Rottweiler Forum. Yet they slipped through the cracks . Why?

Luckily for me, a Thunder Valley male was sent to stud to an "outside" bitch, so we have a wonderful little girl. Is she a show dog, no. However after reading the aforementioned site, who cares. What is annoying though is when the " experts" admonish the people starting out, they just don't address the real issue. There are crooks out there. How can they be stopped?

Like you said, when looking at their website, talking to them on the phone, through their e-mails. Seeing ThunderVly dogs being shown at a local show, I thought they were COE breeders. It was after he was shipped to me and the issues with him I started to question them. He came to me really dirty too.

I am glad that you have a very sweet girl.

[maya's dad]

Did you go to the site I suggested.? There are a LOT of people that have real issues with these two "ladies" The site also suggests a DNA of your dog. Please do visit it.

At the end of the day, our little girl is ours, she is wonderful, although not a show dog as was sold to us. I am new to this site, so don't know how to contact you directly via e mail. But please do go to the site I suggest.