Question about puppy to puppy *playing*.

[doctahg]

Hi everyone,
Since this is the first time I've had two pups of the same age, I wanted to know how *rough* for lack of a better term, everyone let's their dogs get when they play. With our different age dogs in the past, they, fortunately for us, sorted out their order without too much in the way of scary scenes. Only on 2 or 3 occasions and with 1 particular female who was brutal to another female did I step in on after a time. But with the 2, I'm curious, from anyone who knows, if and when they may be escalation of their play into psuedo fighting. They obviously have no pack order now, although I'm pretty sure what it will be, and wanted to know when this usually takes place. And also...how rough do you let them get? They are only 8 weeks at present.
Thanks for the help as always!
Paul

[RottnKid1]

Since they're only 8 weeks old right now, as long as they're not hurting each other, it would probably be best to let them work it out. Of course, there are variables to this situation. Did they come from the same litter? At what age did you get them? They should just be leaving their Mom and littermates now, so I'm hoping you just got them. If you got them too early, then they may not have learned proper behavior, boundaries and interaction. If possible, it's best to let them work out their own pecking order - and then you have to respect that order by giving a bit of special treatment to the alpha, i.e. feeding the alpha first, petting first, etc. Just be aware that having two pups of the same age means more work and if they came to you at too young an age, it'll require a LOT more work. Are both pups of the same gender? If so, male or female?

[doctahg]

Hi Traci,
Just got them. Both female same litter. Lot of work but not too much more than one, just will be double the training time which isn't a problem. Just getting used to the playing is an experience. although on a good note it tires them out a ton. I'll be starting puppy classes soon, then continue on. Their attention span is limited at the moment, but they're beginning to know their names and to some degree "no bites" :)...They are very different which is good. One seems very adaptable, And will probably be the easier to train. The other is much more head-strong, and will be a tougher nut to crack. I was pretty sure last night, as as the breeder and her handler that she would be the dominant of the two, but this morning was role reversal. They had two very vocal play moments this morning, which I think were the beginnings of "I've had enough leave me alone for a minute" episodes. The dog, Sisi, the more adaptable one, had the *upper hand*, which is the total opposite of yesterday. I'm finding that how tired one is seems to turn the *battle*, and this has changed form day to day. Kahli, who the breeder and handler both feel will be dominant, is much more dependent on her sister, than Sisi is of her. It's a great read in animal behavior anyways<g>. Just want them to have 2 ears in 4 more weeks! I started yesterday getting time alone with each and it worked out good. They had no problems one on one and were very attentive. In a couple days I'll try to really get through to them, once they settle in a bit more. They have worn they ID collars, but I'll start giving them some time with a collar tomorrow.
thanhyou!
Paul

[RottnKid1]

Well, it seems you're well prepared and dedicated and that's wonderful! I'm very glad to hear that they'll be going to classes once their vaccines are completed and that you will also spend time with them individually. Please don't stop at puppy class, either. Continuing obedience is very important - or you could get into agility or some other dogs sport. As I said, at this point, as long as they're just working out pack order and not getting into squabbles which are too serious, it's just best to let them work it out. If they DO start showing any signs of getting serious, it's time for you to step in and make it clear to them who's REALLY top dog. Having dogs of the same sex can be more difficult, but in most cases, it can be done harmoniously. It's important that you don't make any assumptions as to who will ultimately be alpha - just because one is more headstrong doesn't necessarily mean that dog will be the alpha. Just remember that old saying, "Speak softly and carry a big stick.":) With some dogs, it's very obvious who the "boss dog" is, but with others, you have to pay close attention to all nuances of their behavior in order to ascertain who has the leadership position. I wish you the best of luck with both of your girls! One thing I would suggest is to have your girls spayed prior to their first heat. This could help to prevent them from being even more competitive. The last thing you want is to have to keep them seperated.

[doctahg]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply...they were bought to potentailly show too. They are pretty good looking at the moment, but anything can change obviously. If one or both can't cut it I ill obviously spay them, although their bloodlines are so solid if they have no real conformation problems I may be tempted to try to improve with a litter...but that is so far off it's stupid to even think about it. I will probably go the obedience route anyways, as that will be fun, more fun than showing. Although this is going to be ALOT of work, I think the rewards will be worth it in end! Two beautiful wellbehaved(hopefully:)) daughters! WHat more could anyone want! ;)
Paul

[RottnKid1]

Sorry, I didn't realize they were show prospects. That rules out spaying until you know for certain whether they can "cut it" in the breed ring. If they don't, you can trail spayed bitches in obedience:)! I hope they turn out beautifully!

[doctahg]

Thanks Traci! Alhtough I have one more question....aside from not letting them on the grass...what the heck can I do to stop them from eating it!! I won't have to mow the lawn in their exercise pen or even around it this week! One threw up some already, but 5 minutes later....back to the grass! Bark Mulch, concrete walkway, carpet.....gonna be a LOONNNGGG couple months!!!
Paul

[Judi W]

As far as the grass eating is concerned, everyone is entitled to a bit of salad. You simply hope they do most of the throwing up outside.

Pups usually take turns about who is on top. Same sex same age can become a problem when they start reaching maturity, but you will just have to wait and see. I do not restrict or inhibit puppy play unless there is a nasty tempered bully in the group. That one I will come down on.

As Traci said, you cannot assume who will be alpha. Sometimes that position will switch back and forth according to location or even from day to day. Baring nastiness, that is best left up to them.

Have fun,

[doctahg]

Hi,
Neither is nasty, but I think the more *adaptable* pup, who is also a bit bigger, is starting to fel her oats so to speak. The litter was large...10 pups...so she may have been cruising along in the middle, now however, 1 on 1 she's getting more pushy. It will be interesting to watch them develop that's for sure. I just hope they sort out everything with a minimum of violence. They definetly enjoy each other!
Paul

[Judi W]

Then you enjoy watching them. If you give them work to do with you, obedience, agility, doesn't matter, you will still be the best game in town.

[myandromeda]

I am sooooooo glad that you asked this question! I too have two pups from the same litter, although mine are both males. I was also wondering about the play fighting thing. We've taught them the word "break" which means, stop playing and sit down and relax. I'm going to have to continue reading the replies to this thread, because it is very pertinent to my situation as well!

Finally, someone I can relate too!!!! :D

[RottnKid1]

I think it's a good idea to teach your pups to settle on command - it'll come in very handy in other areas, as well.

The only difference is that I use the command "settle" and you use "break." The fact that people use different words for the same command really makes no difference - the important thing is that you're taking the time to teach your pups. You could say "bubblegum" rather than "break" and your pups wouldn't care.:)

[Seven Hills]

Hi, Please understand having 2 puppies from the same litter is alot more work than just thinking "taking one out, to taking 2 out'. They both need individual attention, which means many hours per day as puppies to socialize and train. I found with 2 from the same litter it is harder to work individually because I thought of the 2 as one, hard to explain. But be careful to socialize each for their own individual needs, and remember no 2 rottweilers are alike! Treat each as they need to be treated. And good luck!
Lisa

[doctahg]

Hi Lisa,
I can see that with mine already. They have very different personalities which are rapidly *developing*. One got a bit testy today when she was picked up to go out...and she wasn't fond of any correction either. The other gave me a growl, and a firm no with eye contact stopped her in her tracts. They're still babies but learning fast that's for sure. They also seem to be getting much more comfortable at the house, being only 4 1/2 days with us. Just wish when they peed outside they did the WHOLE pee outside! At least tonight when I interupted 2 attempted pees they stopped right away, which they didn't 2 days ago....guess they're picking up the *No* word, or my tone at least. They sure are cute...my last rottie never kissed much, but was an *affectionate* dog none the least. Thes two are wearing a hole in my chin<g>, although I will be happy when those 4 dagger canines fall out!
paul

[myandromeda]

Originally posted by Seven Hills
Hi, Please understand having 2 puppies from the same litter is alot more work than just thinking "taking one out, to taking 2 out'. They both need individual attention, which means many hours per day as puppies to socialize and train. I found with 2 from the same litter it is harder to work individually because I thought of the 2 as one, hard to explain. But be careful to socialize each for their own individual needs, and remember no 2 rottweilers are alike! Treat each as they need to be treated. And good luck!
Lisa

This is so true! Every part. You do begin to think of two as one. I understand. We are trying (and succeeding!) to retain their individuality. But they still answer to eachother's names. It's as though their names are CrichtonD'Argo instead of Crichton AND D'Argo :P

I have to say that we made a big mistake at the beginning by crating them together... It took a few times being crated seperately for them to realize it was okay. :o My husband and I try to take them into seperate rooms and play with them individually. It was difficult at first, because they would consistantly look for the other, but they have become MUCH better since they now have their own crates (blushes again...)

They have very distinct personalities which differ greatly from eachother. My husband has a hard time realizing that they are different. He always asks, "Is Crichton okay?" "Yes, dear," I say. "He's just not as active as D'Argo!"

And the dominance does change from day to day. At first we thought that D'Argo was dominant, however, Crichton has shown that he's not going to go down that easy (no matter how passive he is!)

They each have their own toys, however, they enjoy steeling eachothers. We have made a point of telling them to share, or get their own toys. Any pointers on this?